not planned Easy mode AAR

[Dragon1-1]

Unlikely. This feature would just be too complex to implement. Yes, it's hard (especially with low end hardware), but learning to fly proper formation first helps a lot.

[killjoy73au]

8 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Unlikely. This feature would just be too complex to implement. Yes, it's hard (especially with low end hardware), but learning to fly proper formation first helps a lot.

 

It's really not that complex, especially seeing as the AI can do it and it would be the exact same thing with the player plane being taken over by the AI script. I remember in Janes F-15 you could have the autopilot fly to the nearest tanker, hook up, fuel up, unhook and then fly all the way back to resume your waypoints and you didn't have to do a thing. That's not what i'm suggesting here.

It's nothing to do with being too hard, but it's a tedious boring process that some people just don't have the time for among many other reasons.

If you want to do it, go nuts, nobody wants to take away the option to AAR, just simply add an option not to have to fully do it yourself.
 

Edited June 23 by killjoy73au

[Dragon1-1]

7 minutes ago, killjoy73au said:

It's really not that complex, especially seeing as the AI can do it and it would be the exact same thing with the player plane being taken over by the AI script.

Not doable, AI FM is different from the player, and the engine probably isn't set up to support swapping FMs in real time. You might have noticed, for instance, that HB implemented Iceman as a relatively simple AI autopilot, as opposed to him being able to dogfight and do all the other stuff like DCS AI. That's because Iceman has to fly the jet just like you do, with full physics and subtleties of the model. The AI FMs are simplified to the point of inadequacy, which is why ED is now developing a more complex solution (GFM), which will still not be the same thing the player uses, but it should look similar.

Older sims never did that. That's why several other titles do have a fully fledged "autopilot" which can fly the player's plane like any other AI. Their FMs were simple enough that both AI and player used the same one. 

[killjoy73au]

11 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Not doable, AI FM is different from the player, and the engine probably isn't set up to support swapping FMs in real time. You might have noticed, for instance, that HB implemented Iceman as a relatively simple AI autopilot, as opposed to him being able to dogfight and do all the other stuff like DCS AI. That's because Iceman has to fly the jet just like you do, with full physics and subtleties of the model. The AI FMs are simplified to the point of inadequacy, which is why ED is now developing a more complex solution (GFM), which will still not be the same thing the player uses, but it should look similar.

Older sims never did that. That's why several other titles do have a fully fledged "autopilot" which can fly the player's plane like any other AI. Their FMs were simple enough that both AI and player used the same one. 

I'm not sure that really makes any sense given I can take control of any plane or vehicle I essentially want to in game with Combined Arms. I can swap back and fourth between an F-16 or an Abrams as much as I want to and it goes back to AI control.

I mean I totally get that player and AI flight modelling is different, and that AI only planes are far less complex than player flyable ones. But Planes that I can take direct control of and swap between like the F-16C or the F-15C shouldn't have any issue with this.

Edited June 23 by killjoy73au

[rob10]

I get you want it, but this dead horse has been beaten to a pulp in many threads already and ED have indicated on multiple occasions (some newer than the post above) they have no interest in doing it.

[Exorcet]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Unlikely. This feature would just be too complex to implement. Yes, it's hard (especially with low end hardware), but learning to fly proper formation first helps a lot.

There are tons of ways to do it, it shouldn't be difficult at all. We already have proximity refuel/rearm for ground units for example.

[Kang]

I'd say it's mostly just not worth the effort of going to a complicated solution here, seeing how there are very few missions on DCS maps that really require in-flight refueling. It's a nice thing to be doing and once in a while it gives you a few extra options, but seldomly something decisive.

P.S.: Guess a 'refuel while within a sphere of influence around the tankers' approach would be doable easily enough.

Edited June 23 by Kang

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

There are tons of ways to do it, it shouldn't be difficult at all. We already have proximity refuel/rearm for ground units for example.

I think you can implement that as a script if you really want. ED is quite explicitly not interested in magic AAR, though.

Maybe HB could add it to the Phantom, basically a "let Jester drive" option. FWIW, it was sometimes done that way IRL, since the backseater has a better view of the boom. That'd be aircraft-specific, though, and ED doesn't usually port HB features to their aircraft.

[freehand]

Every 6 months or so the same booolicks.

[killjoy73au]

4 hours ago, freehand said:

Every 6 months or so the same booolicks.

Good contribution to the discussion.

5 hours ago, Kang said:

I'd say it's mostly just not worth the effort of going to a complicated solution here, seeing how there are very few missions on DCS maps that really require in-flight refueling. It's a nice thing to be doing and once in a while it gives you a few extra options, but seldomly something decisive.

P.S.: Guess a 'refuel while within a sphere of influence around the tankers' approach would be doable easily enough.

I'm more thinking of the single player user made missions. DCS campaigns and missions don't have a lot of AAR from what i've seen, but i've made a whole bunch that do require you to AAR if you've been on the throttle a little too much, and even I kinda get over having to do it. It's really more for accessibility from my point of view, like people getting into DCS by starting with an FC3 aircraft and working their way up to the more complicated models.

[killjoy73au]

7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I think you can implement that as a script if you really want. ED is quite explicitly not interested in magic AAR, though.

Maybe HB could add it to the Phantom, basically a "let Jester drive" option. FWIW, it was sometimes done that way IRL, since the backseater has a better view of the boom. That'd be aircraft-specific, though, and ED doesn't usually port HB features to their aircraft.

Even a "Set unit fuel" trigger would be helpful, I mean there's scripting in the mission editor to "get unit fuel" and people have created scripts to check a units fuel and display it on screen in a %. But as far as the player aircraft goes, there's nothing built in or easily doable from .LUA to add or remove fuel from the players plane, which would be the simplest solution for staying in close proximity to a tanker.

If unit A is within X distance of Unit B then unit A Setfuel 100%. And have a timeout trigger for X amount of seconds. Done. All we need is a "Setfuel" command. There is a "SetUnlimitedFuel" command but that only seems to work for AI units.

Edited June 24 by killjoy73au

[Dangerzone]

Set unit fuel API would be great. It could allow for more than just AAR, as well as having the benefit of putting an end to these requests that would benefit both sides, and hopefully be a simple thing to implement in comparison to anything else. It would also help campaign makers who currently accommodate both players who can AAR and those who can’t with a very simple solution. 

[Aja]

To my humble knowledge, it is easy for a mission designer to add a trigger activated by a radio call, which will measure the distance between you and the tanker. And if the distance is less than 100m, you will get +10%total fuel every 10 seconds until you are full.

If it would be a core feature, I would agree only if it automatically writes in the game chat something like: " Look at me, I am a noob, but I will make my best to improve in the future!"

[killjoy73au]

3 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Set unit fuel API would be great. It could allow for more than just AAR, as well as having the benefit of putting an end to these requests that would benefit both sides, and hopefully be a simple thing to implement in comparison to anything else. It would also help campaign makers who currently accommodate both players who can AAR and those who can’t with a very simple solution. 

Concur

3 hours ago, Aja said:

To my humble knowledge, it is easy for a mission designer to add a trigger activated by a radio call, which will measure the distance between you and the tanker. And if the distance is less than 100m, you will get +10%total fuel every 10 seconds until you are full.

If it would be a core feature, I would agree only if it automatically writes in the game chat something like: " Look at me, I am a noob, but I will make my best to improve in the future!"

No and also no. 

[Exorcet]

12 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I think you can implement that as a script if you really want. ED is quite explicitly not interested in magic AAR, though.

I'm not aware of a way to transfer fuel through scripting.

18 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Not doable, AI FM is different from the player, and the engine probably isn't set up to support swapping FMs in real time.

Forgot to mention before but this has been in DCS forever. R Alt + J. Will swap AI and player flight model or vice versa. Extremely useful for a number of things, but unfortunately bugged. It seems like no one knows about this which may be contributing to its poorly maintained state.

It is (or was) an amazing tool for dealing with wingmen oddities or letting you continue long missions after a loss of aircraft. Maybe a bit off topic, but there is a thread reporting the bug that could perhaps use support:

 

[freehand]

9 hours ago, killjoy73au said:

Good contribution to the discussion.

 

There is nothing to add as it has been said all before.

But your welcome,

[Dragon1-1]

11 hours ago, Exorcet said:

It seems like no one knows about this which may be contributing to its poorly maintained state.

Sounds like an abandoned cheat code originally meant for developers. It's not in any official documentation. It does sound useful for testing AI stuff, but I think even ED might have forgotten about it at this point.

[Exorcet]

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Sounds like an abandoned cheat code originally meant for developers. It's not in any official documentation. It does sound useful for testing AI stuff, but I think even ED might have forgotten about it at this point.

It seems intentional. It only works on flyable planes and then only those in your own coalition. It is unfortunately undocumented, but that's not uncommon in DCS. Functionally, it's great as a tool to get around AI wingman silliness. Set your own plane to orbit and then take control of a wingman to go shoot something they refuse to do through radio orders. As it's not the topic here though, I guess enough has been said about it.

[PawlaczGMD]

This again... This feature is outside of the scope of the sim. Just set your fuel to unlimited.

This is for people who refuse to spend a few hours to learn A2A refueling, but want the devs to devote their time to build this very specific feature which is supposed to exist because they're too proud to just turn on the fuel cheat they want.

You can access 99% of the game's content without doing refueling. Otherwise, just learn it? All it takes is practice. 

[MAXsenna]

You're not suggesting there may be some out there who don't think people should be able to enjoy a game the way they want to enjoy it are you? 

Nah, he doesn't mind. It's just the sixth or seventh time someone has posted this wish so far this year.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

I'm not sure that really makes any sense given I can take control of any plane or vehicle I essentially want to in game with Combined Arms. I can swap back and fourth between an F-16 or an Abrams as much as I want to and it goes back to AI control.
I mean I totally get that player and AI flight modelling is different, and that AI only planes are far less complex than player flyable ones. But Planes that I can take direct control of and swap between like the F-16C or the F-15C shouldn't have any issue with this.

You are correct. And evem without CA you can jump between AI aircraft with LCtrl+J providing you have purchased the module.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

Every 6 months or so the same booolicks.

Every month actually!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Kang]

23 hours ago, killjoy73au said:

I'm more thinking of the single player user made missions. DCS campaigns and missions don't have a lot of AAR from what i've seen, but i've made a whole bunch that do require you to AAR if you've been on the throttle a little too much, and even I kinda get over having to do it. It's really more for accessibility from my point of view, like people getting into DCS by starting with an FC3 aircraft and working their way up to the more complicated models.

I mean, sure, but... you see how building a mission that requires it was your own decision, right?

[killjoy73au]

2 hours ago, Kang said:

I mean, sure, but... you see how building a mission that requires it was your own decision, right?

And how does it affect you in any way shape or form? To have an option that you may or may not use depending on the way you want to play a computer game... Help me understand how the concept of an easy or auto AAR option is so offensive to some people.

4 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

This again... This feature is outside of the scope of the sim. Just set your fuel to unlimited.

This is for people who refuse to spend a few hours to learn A2A refueling, but want the devs to devote their time to build this very specific feature which is supposed to exist because they're too proud to just turn on the fuel cheat they want.

You can access 99% of the game's content without doing refueling. Otherwise, just learn it? All it takes is practice. 

All fantastic condescending points, thanks for the derogatory contribution.

Edited June 25 by killjoy73au

[Vakarian]

2 minutes ago, killjoy73au said:

And how does it affect you in any way shape or form? To have an option that you may or may not use depending on the way you want to play a computer game... Help me understand how the concept is so offensive to some people.

Because you are essentially asking for an aimbot in an FPS game. "Aiming is too difficult, make it do it for me" is in a nutshell "Air to air refuelling is too difficult, make it do it for me". 

To do AAR is not a necessity, there are ways of making missions and proper planning to avoid having to AAR if you aren't skilled for it. If it becomes required because of XY mission parameters, then suck it up, spend few hours and learn it.

[killjoy73au]

11 minutes ago, Vakarian said:

Because you are essentially asking for an aimbot in an FPS game. "Aiming is too difficult, make it do it for me" is in a nutshell "Air to air refuelling is too difficult, make it do it for me". 

To do AAR is not a necessity, there are ways of making missions and proper planning to avoid having to AAR if you aren't skilled for it. If it becomes required because of XY mission parameters, then suck it up, spend few hours and learn it.

No what i'm asking for is accessibility for more players and mission makers. Because AAR is a necessity in a lot of user made missions. Typically nobody except for organised groups use AAR in multiplayer because in PVE/PVP servers you're never alive long enough or are never far enough away from an airfield to need it. I've seen plenty of people on PVE servers just out in the ocean practicing AAR, but that's only because they want to, because they have the option to either take off from a carrier or to take off from land. Key word there being "option", playing the game how they enjoy playing it.

It's about OPTIONS. Options for mission makers and people of various skill levels to enjoy a computer game using semi-realism as they want to. If people enjoy doing AAR the normal way, cool, so be it, nobody is trying to take that trophy away from anyone. 

Just like many other options, you should be able to enable or disable it in your mission or server parameters, depending on how realistic the server or mission maker wants it to be. Just like tags, just like realistic flight or arcade modelling, just like forcing cockpit view on or off, it's all about options and choices that make for peoples own particular play style and not about people thinking they're superior to others.

Edited June 25 by killjoy73au

[Dallenbach]

You hardcore types have simply had your brains f****d.    Sorry for this drastic expression. Your behavior reminds me of the "PC/Mac War" of the '80s and '90s, and you should be above that.
Normally there is nothing wrong with an option for users who don't like AAR for whatever reason.

Campaign creators are certainly missing out on revenue from those users. Maybe look at it from this perspective. 

Only my 2c