RvE Lockon Realism Mod Release Candidate 4 (Public Beta)

[FLANKERATOR]

Maddog should not be punished.

 

maddoging ETs is in someway similar to firing AMRAAMs on TWS.

In TWS radar works on prediction as does pilot for ETs.

 

but this is only IMO.

[hitman]

Dont think IRL you can maddog ET's.

[GGTharos]

No, maddogging ET's in RL would be a way to waste them as their seekers would pick up any stray reflection off a cloud, lake, glass, or any other fun heat sources that could be in the sky or on the ground. Further, their seeker's operating times are pretty short. It is not at ALL like a 120 on TWS. If the seeker isn't locked before launch, it's rather likely to hit zip, zilch and nada.

 

Maddog should not be punished.

 

maddoging ETs is in someway similar to firing AMRAAMs on TWS.

In TWS radar works on prediction as does pilot for ETs.

 

but this is only IMO.

[A.S]

The "style" to MADDOG as a kind of attack is not realistic AT ALL (if you say in real life they maddog...think when and why only)

In very very few cases u may maddog a missile in real but generally it makes NO sense do to so at all.

I know in Lockon it works well especially with LNGT mode.....and i know that its the easy way for lowflyers to pop up on AWACS symbols and do so...but that s not BVR combat...that´s smart gameplay, that figuring out how to make best points on a flipper....or how to avoid bullets with bunyjumping in shooters...etc etc etc lol

 

Talking bout Maddog punishing or not..... in my opinion it should not be possible at all......Fly BVR in its proper way guys ...away from "tricks" which just works ingame. That doesnt make it legitime only cuz it counts for you or not. It s just wrong. DeV should consider excatly these things creating a SIM.

 

If the missiles would operate correct (in coding) you would pffffff bidon blub your maddogs....or waste it ....or hit 1 of 20 shots maybe..

 

TWS shots on F-15 is a different topic in functionality and not compareable in terms of .. "oh they can shoot silent...we want it too"

 

Besides if you have a F-15 inbound ....force him to go STT down to burnthrough and once there it doesnt matter anymore cuz fight is written new. With that new ECM - ECCM change right now done....far range TWS shots wont work either. :smilewink:

Edited September 22, 2008 by A.S

[RvETito]

Whats about Su-25 flaps? AFAK they works different from fighter's one. For example they can be extended at speeds over 400km/h. Did you fix that in future issue of realism mod?

P.S. By the way - gess its concerns A-10 too.

 

Bombers are not affected. This is mostly A2A oriented mod.

[Pilotasso]

No, maddogging ET's in RL would be a way to waste them as their seekers would pick up any stray reflection off a cloud, lake, glass, or any other fun heat sources that could be in the sky or on the ground. Further, their seeker's operating times are pretty short. It is not at ALL like a 120 on TWS. If the seeker isn't locked before launch, it's rather likely to hit zip, zilch and nada.

 

clouds acts as a black body to IR ;)

 

I am unable to rep yoda any further lol :D

Edited September 22, 2008 by Pilotasso

[RvEYoda]

Bombers are not affected. This is mostly A2A oriented mod.

 

Right now I think they are affected by the flaps script, but I

can change that if you find the numbers for these planes. I will

remove it from the next version for 25 and a10, but it would be even better

if it affected them too but with different numbers

 

Maddogging an ET irl has got nothing in common with TWS amraam shot.

TWS amraam shot is a radar supported shot with mid course guidance datalink

provided to the missile. Though you might want to look again, because

in real, the STT shots don't give any warning either until ARH stage is reached, Flankerator ;)

 

ET maddog irl most likely jst sees "AHA a heat source."......well you are one among 100.

Edited September 22, 2008 by =RvE=Yoda

[Ironhand]

Roger Ironhand, if you can find the documentation about this,

I could make it an f-15 only feature, since I know its there for the eagle.

I assumed all lockon planes have such capability...

 

If you can dig up the information about these things it would be great

Thats why it's release candidate/beta and not final...

OK. I'll see if I can find it again.

 

Rich

[RvEYoda]

OK. I'll see if I can find it again.

 

Rich

 

 

Thanks

[RvETito]

Right now I think they are affected by the flaps script, but I

can change that if you find the numbers for these planes. I will

remove it from the next version for 25 and a10, but it would be even better

if it affected them too but with different numbers

 

Hmm, I had the impression that the mod is for fighters only, now I recall we were discussing the ground clutter self-jamming that A2G mode becomes the only one available to not hit bombers. I can't express any valid opinion about the A-10 as I don't really fly it in LO but IMO you should leave the 25(T) untouched. It's the only one that has advanced flight model in the game, flaps including. At combat position they improve the performance but if you pull harder (like it happens to me recently lol :D) with them in combat position watch your wings falling appart :D So the limitation is already there, if you remove that people will be able to pull like crazy with no danger of breaking the jet. Why wasting this nice feature in the FM :) ? As for full flaps, as soon as you reach 350 km/h IAS the plane starts shaking like crazy and is pretty much unflyable (or at least unable to do any aiming/shooting as you can't read your HUD or sight) so this limitation is also implemented in LO.

[RvEYoda]

No there was never any systems or jamming limitations for the strikers Tito,

Only the flaps and Airbrake scripts were active, which I have now removed from

the strikers. The next update on the server will include this change

[Frostie]

Your scaring me , I don't want a better AMRAAM/R-77 im quite happy with the stuffy ones.:D

 

Seriously im glad you've found a way to add more realism to LOMAC at least when guys get shotdown they'll have less to moan about. But can't you squeeze something nice for the Flanker, like say a cloaking device, just a small one, say a few seconds of invisiblity, please.

 

Thanks for your efforts Yoda, this is really impressive work about time you put your brain into gear on this sim instead of Falcon :P, is it also possible to sort the printscreening, even though its more often lag and other issues that cause warping the least it would do would stop the accusations you see banded between foes.

Maybe similair to 'ctrl e e e' , 'ps''ps'ps' = eject.:D

 

What the hell i'll probably have to start flying F-15 now.:)

Edited September 22, 2008 by Frostie

[Pilotasso]

The mig has just the same benifits from the scripts as F-15 is. ;) Except that is permanantly cloaked, thats why I call it MiG-29 "Raptorski" :D

Edited September 22, 2008 by Pilotasso

[Frostie]

Except that is permanantly cloaked, thats why I call it MiG-29 "Raptorski" :D

Thats why it the choice of the AirQuaker, only newguys* fly Migs real men like a challenge.:D

*censored

Edited September 22, 2008 by Frostie

[GGTharos]

Seriously im glad you've found a way to add more realism to LOMAC at least when guys get shotdown they'll have less to moan about. But can't you squeeze something nice for the Flanker, like say a cloaking device, just a small one, say a few seconds of invisiblity, please.

 

It already has the most long ranging, fastest weapons in the game, and the opposition has greatly reduced chaff.

 

Thanks for your efforts Yoda, this is really impressive work about time you put your brain into gear on this sim instead of Falcon :P, is it also possible to sort the printscreening, even though its more often lag and other issues that cause warping the least it would do would stop the accusations you see banded between foes.

Maybe similair to 'ctrl e e e' , 'ps''ps'ps' = eject.:D

 

He can't because LUA can't intercept keyboard calls.

[RvEYoda]

Reasons why AMRAAM and R77 need upgrades in terminal stage maneuverability is because

in lockon standard, at the same speeds, the R-27 and Aim-7 have more maneuverability than

the amraams/77. What does this mean? Well it makes it incredibly easy to

just barrell roll any number of amraams/r77. (ive already shown this in youtube video)

 

Real aim7 might be good, but amraam is certainly better than the classic aim7

and r77 has REALLY good maneuverability against high-G targets

Just look at manufacturer for R27 v R77 (Vympel both afaik), the max G of target

is higher for R77 than R27, but lo has the other way around :S. So this is why.

 

Frostie, about Su-27

You will notice since the F-15 is cut from 120 to 40 chaff....

your ERs will kill a LOT ;) (I tried it vs Tito, bang bang 15-30 km kills all the time :P..)

The amraam still also has teh weakest speed in the game among the MRMs, more similar

to real life Aim9m Speed profile than real aim120 .

 

About printscreening/warping

I could make a serverside script : If client has too much discontinous flight path (warping) he is autokicked for 2 min?

Edited September 22, 2008 by =RvE=Yoda

[Dunkan Aidaho]

It already has the most long ranging

That is totally incorrect.

In LO F-15 range with fuel tanks attached is much wider than Su-27. The MiG-29 range with external fuel is also noticeable wider. I know, it sounds weird, but i check this on 1.12a several times using different flightpaths with same results. Su-27 can fly farther than MiG-29 only on low altitudes.

[RvETito]

I believe he meant the missiles ;) We haven't changed fuel capacity in the script.

[RvEYoda]

Yeah we aren't changing any missile or fuel ranges :P

[GGTharos]

Nono, it is totally correct, unless you cut off my sentence like you did! I was talking about weapons :)

[RvETito]

No there was never any systems or jamming limitations for the strikers Tito,

Only the flaps and Airbrake scripts were active, which I have now removed from

the strikers. The next update on the server will include this change

 

Yeah indeed, you got me wrong I guess- I meant that A2G of fighters(or at least russian) is the only one that is available on ground or low altitude and u told me that the purpose is to not impact bombers. Case solved.

 

As for flaps and airbrakes- Su-25(T) has excellent FM in FC, we don't have to simplify it ;) A-10 is slow enough anyway so I'd say to leave the default SFM we have for it anyway.

 

You will notice since the F-15 is cut from 120 to 40 chaff....

your ERs will kill a LOT (I tried it vs Tito, bang bang 15-30 km kills all the time ..)

 

Don't use that as reference, I suck in dodging and I notice my SA in BVR is close to zero recently :/

[redeagleGER]

First, i havent tried the new mod,yet. But i will. At moment i imagine the missile/bvr behaviour something like that:

 

flanker vs f15, both fire their amramms/27ers...

flanker doesnt have fire and forget so can crank sidewards only.

f15 cranks also but jsut launches another amramm when its "getting too hot", turns around and let the missile do the work...

so what? what can flanker pilots do when et autorization starts at around 15km? we can do nothing more then crank when the f15 just tunrns cold. if its like u say "the new amramms stick on u like glue" then we flankers are castrated! with a "normal" overrided et we could at least even out the missbalance between arh and sarh missiles but now? im sceptic tbh.

 

imho realistic planes/missiles is one thing, even chances another. so making the amramm more manouverable is ok for me, but forbitting et override just unbalances it against full active missiles.

 

though i like the efford of permitting loped payloads, fliing below 10 and the jammer problems :thumbup:

[Dunkan Aidaho]

Nono, it is totally correct, unless you cut off my sentence like you did! I was talking about weapons :)

My fault:) The word "range" doesn't seems to be related to following weapons or chaffs themes. End of offtopic.

[RvEYoda]

Try it redeagle when we give the goahead for amraams in the server.

Also there is nothing that prevents you from simply disengaging when he goes cold as well.

 

That will make you lose 1 missile each, and flankers have the

same amount as the 15 s ;)

You also have MUCH longer range. I would say this mod probably puts the game

more in favor of the flanker rather than the 15.

 

The amraam is not an impossible missile......You can still outmaneuver it/bleed it/make

it lose lock/notch it/ortho roll it etc etc etc....

Its just that the last second beryoza-jink and magic 2nm barrell roll have much lower chance of working IF the missile has enough energy to follow :P

Also remember he cant all-seeing-maddog or spam you with his amraams. He has a launch delay and only lets him launch when he has a radar lock

The difference, simply speaking, Now you cant just "assume it will pass you doing nothing"

 

Statistically speaking :

In standard 1.12, the amraam is less likely to be affected by chaff than than R-27ER ( you can make statistical tests showing this ).

Thus the amraam was stronger vs chaff, and chaff reduction alone will perhaps increase its Pk online by 0.1,

However in 1.12 the ER is extremely sensitive to chaff, and by the mod reduction of chaff alone, the ER might gain 0.2, 0.3 Pk (yet to be proven in tests, which will follow!)

 

So what would happen if we didnt improve amraam maneuverability ?

People die by ER while flanker makes barrell roll from 25nm->merge :)

(There are multiple reasons why the F-15 can't do the same, reasons I will not explain in detail now)

 

Conclusion : Amraam and R77 are already undermodelled for terminal maneuverability compared to semi-actives.

Increase so they are slightly better (which is on par with real data). Make people at least have to do SOMETHING

if beeing fired at...Not just"Oh..he fired a missile, whatever...wait for blink blink blink...one light..ok pull up..done :)"

(myself I can do 8 missiles in a row no problem with this beryoza trick)

This is fun in SP but not really MP imo ;), quote AS : "It makes team tactics with amraams useless against exploiters"

(and I promise you AS is very good in flanker, it's only lately he has been flying the eagle)

 

Another important point is that

The defensive fighter is now really defensive. He cant just come back with a chaff spam and then pickle 4 slammers at you.

If he is defensive, you now have the upper hand. If you play your cards right, and take the initiative early and gain the

tactical advantage, you will also have the chance to use it.

Edited September 22, 2008 by =RvE=Yoda

[Pilotasso]

First, i havent tried the new mod,yet. But i will. At moment i imagine the missile/bvr behaviour something like that:

 

flanker vs f15, both fire their amramms/27ers...

flanker doesnt have fire and forget so can crank sidewards only.

f15 cranks also but jsut launches another amramm when its "getting too hot", turns around and let the missile do the work...

so what? what can flanker pilots do when et autorization starts at around 15km? we can do nothing more then crank when the f15 just tunrns cold. if its like u say "the new amramms stick on u like glue" then we flankers are castrated! with a "normal" overrided et we could at least even out the missbalance between arh and sarh missiles but now? im sceptic tbh.

 

imho realistic planes/missiles is one thing, even chances another. so making the amramm more manouverable is ok for me, but forbitting et override just unbalances it against full active missiles.

 

though i like the efford of permitting loped payloads, fliing below 10 and the jammer problems :thumbup:

 

Welcome to the world of the real Neo. :D