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Level 5 gun pipper goes for unrealistic amount of lead fighting on MP


darkman222
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Have a look at that video. The level 5 gun pipper behaves normal before and after second 23.

But if you check second 23 you see the bandit pulls maybe 3 or 4 G but the pipper goes crazy, like it wants to lead for 20 G. The bandit is another F16. So he cant paddle or do anything to cheat by over g-ing. Hence he can pull just 9 Gs but the pipper falls way below the minus symbol which stands for a target manovering with 9Gs.

Why is that happening? Is it because of the "high" speed of 650 knots? Because just seconds later the pipper comes back between the 1G and 9G mark, when I am below 600 knots.

That does not make sense to me. Also what I experience from time to time, that the pipper is spastic and bouncing around when trying to shoot on MP from a 6 o clock position. Like it did in the DCS F18 in the early release days.

 

Track file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/939hdy5eci9vhmk/mobettameta's Dogfight Arena v1.21-20210522-162239 gun pipper3.trk?dl=0


Edited by darkman222
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Looks like they haven't safeguarded the radar/pipper logic against the errors that can happen in network communication yet.

Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two.

Come let's eat grandpa!

Use punctuation, save lives!

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The employment manual says not to try using the gun above either 250 or 300 knots (can't remember off the top of my head). It's a weapon for when the bandit is slow and predictable. If someone is flying BFM at 600 knots, their turn circle is measured in miles and not feet. Just shoot them with a fox-2.

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Dances, PhD

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Guns only fights should start from the perch setup (one aircraft already offensive) with the defender at 300-350 knots. He should bleed down pretty good in his initial deny turn.

Now, if you are flying in a multiplayer server with dudes you don't know, doing sets you haven't briefed at 600+ knots ... You're not doing BFM the way it was intended, so you can't ask the jet's system to keep up. Like i said, the employment manual says to use the gun in BFM at much slower speeds.

I don't think this is a bug, but improper use of the machine. #fox2



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Dances, PhD

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regardless of speed.
piper should remain calibrated for 1G target maneuvering. so somewhere between the +9G and the -4G markers. not fly off into the -10G region.

In addition,  there is a HUD vid/Image of an IAF gun kill from 1982, doing 7.2G. However I can't find it right now, but it most defiantly wasn't "in the 300 kts" range.

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Here is another one. I really don't know if that makes any sense at all where the pipper is driving around.

Bandit is not doing anything fancy either. In my opinion, that situation, with a reliable pipper would have been perfect valid guns kill on my end, if the pipper decided not to go crazy moments before I could place it over the bandit. Very disappointing experience...

 

 

 


Edited by darkman222
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nope, doesn't matter how it should work. this is just not that.

I guess the LCOS blending is off here.

(https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/16v5.pdf - page 111+)


Edited by uri_ba
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13 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

I feel this is becoming bug report worthy...

 

The sooner it is reported it as a bug, the sooner it will get fixed 🙂


Edited by Sideburns

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Well I may ask the opponents on the server to stay below 350 kts for me, but I guess they wont be that kind and do that.

I see, there might be a relation between my own speed and the pipper behavior. What also might come into play like uri_ba mentions, that the pipper would blend to another mode which is probably not implemented yet. In the document he shared, this blending process is mentioned too.

Also I know of no other aircraft in DCS that has that limitation. Which leads to the question if the real F16 would have been left off with that limitation, while no other 4th gen fighter has it.

 

Edit: In my second video you can see the pipper go crazy around 450 kts which is defined as the upper bandwidth of the F16 corner speed. I doubt that the pipper is designed unreliable for within corner airspeed. But even if thats the case, it recovers around 530 kts later on, and shows a realistic lead again . So my own speed seems not to be the only factor that causes this behavior.


Edited by darkman222
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***TRACKFILE ADDED***

 

@BIGNEWYtrackfile for this video added here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iibpqwjmknsvyzb/mobettameta's Dogfight Arena v1.20-20210520-002317 gun pipper1.trk?dl=0

This happens at 26:50 min in the track file (counting from track file start)

 

 

 

To keep it compact, here is the other crazy pipper for the video below again.

Trackfile: https://www.dropbox.com/s/939hdy5eci9vhmk/mobettameta's Dogfight Arena v1.21-20210522-162239 gun pipper3.trk?dl=0

Happens at 4:54 mins in the track file.

 

These are not just 2 exceptions where the pipper fails. I have couple more of these, but the ones I posted are the most obvious ones that something seems to be off.

@BIGNEWYplease move it to the bug report section if you think it belongs there. I want to avoid double posts on that topic.


Edited by darkman222
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