Doc3908 Posted June 29, 2021 Posted June 29, 2021 (edited) Hi guys, The other day I was flying a mission deep in the Caucus mountains with low level clouds obscuring much of the terrain. I ended up climbing above the clouds, but it made me wonder: Is there a way to fly low-level in near-zero visibility in the Hind? There's the radar altimeter, but even if it warns me, the Hind is a heavy pig, and high up in the mountains she's not exactly gonna climb fast. I have very little faith in the accuracy of "moving map". So... ???? Thanks for any advice, Doc Edited June 29, 2021 by Doc3908
Viktor_UHPK Posted June 29, 2021 Posted June 29, 2021 Hi Doc. Zero-visibility and low level is a no-no for the Mi-24. It's simply not equipped for that. The only time that you should find yourself in somewhat close proximity to ground and in clouds is during an instrument approach. (NDB approach or GCA approach) Viktor My cyclic stick - modded MS FFB2 and My Mi-8 training videos
unipus Posted June 29, 2021 Posted June 29, 2021 You could fly it instrument with basic minimums just fine. The chart and your various nav aids like NDB should be more than sufficient. Try to hug the ground and you're going to die of course.
randomTOTEN Posted June 29, 2021 Posted June 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc3908 said: So... ???? I figured I can type, or I can share real world posters related to your question.. 5
VampireNZ Posted June 29, 2021 Posted June 29, 2021 Flew in the RNZAF P-3 Orion for seven years and we were the only aircraft in NZ that could fly IMC below MSA (fully enveloped in clouds with zero visibility, flying below the published area minimum safe altitude between mountains/islands etc) using radar for terrain avoidance. IMC in a helicopter is a pretty bad idea and things can go real bad real fast! RADALT won't tell you there is rising ground ahead, but provided you stay above local area MSA then yep NAVAIDS will be fine getting you from A to B provided you have adequate IMC instrumentation with backup ADI, anti-icing etc. (which the Hind does), and are happy flying 100% on instruments in no vis conditions. Vampire
Doc3908 Posted June 30, 2021 Author Posted June 30, 2021 13 hours ago, randomTOTEN said: I figured I can type, or I can share real world posters related to your question.. LoL! The problem the Soviet pilots faced was that when the Communist Party said "GO", you either flew or you faced the firing squad. Seriously, though, I was just asking if the Hind is equipped for low-level/low-visibility flying and I guess the answer is "no". I can't imagine any air-force would risk lives and equipment in bad weather if the machines are not equipped to handle it. That said, mountains are notorious for weather fronts moving in out-of-the-blue...
randomTOTEN Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc3908 said: I guess the answer is "no". I don't believe there is any helicopter equipped for such flying. 1
Quadg Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 5 hours ago, randomTOTEN said: I don't believe there is any helicopter equipped for such flying. MH-53J/M pave low could. it had terrain following and terrain avoidance radar. And forward looking infrared. not sure if the HH/MH-60 pave hawk is the same. My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
unipus Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 10 hours ago, Doc3908 said: LoL! The problem the Soviet pilots faced was that when the Communist Party said "GO", you either flew or you faced the firing squad. Seriously, though, I was just asking if the Hind is equipped for low-level/low-visibility flying and I guess the answer is "no". I can't imagine any air-force would risk lives and equipment in bad weather if the machines are not equipped to handle it. That said, mountains are notorious for weather fronts moving in out-of-the-blue... Questions remains: equipped to handle what, exactly? A ferry flight? A combat mission under marine layer conditions that are forecast to clear by the time you're on the target? Those all seem like situations that a capable pilot and commander would routinely face and succeed at. Penetrating a high threat area with zero vis at treetop level? Probably not.
randomTOTEN Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 3 hours ago, unipus said: Questions remains: equipped to handle what, exactly? Day and Night, Instrument and Visual Flight. OP described the practice of attempting continued visual flight into instrument conditions (VFR into IMC), which is just an absolutely wonderful way to kill yourself in a flying machine, civilian or military.
unipus Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 Oh, I'm well aware. However, if you are trained to fly on instruments, and use your charts to stay away from terrain, it's entirely doable. More dangerous in a helicopter than a fixed wing, but either way the major cause of danger does not even apply in a sim.
randomTOTEN Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 36 minutes ago, unipus said: However, if you are trained to fly on instruments, and use your charts to stay away from terrain, it's entirely doable.
Baltic Pirate Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) Not just the low ceilings and bad visibility, but also low freezing level. Icing can kill you very fast, even in transport category aircraft let alone helicopter. While not exact science, the Garmin 430 with it's moving map, when that comes available for the Hind, can work as a jury rigged low level flying tool. What I have done is map waypoint and altitudes with safety margin over terrain on an OFP and entered those waypoints into the Garmin. Not ideal and certainly not NOE, but provided there's no great pressure differences in your route and you respect your own minimum altitudes over a given route segment and waypoint, it does provide for a tool that is better than nothing. Well it seems that with left ALT + left SHIFT + B, you get the 430 even with Hind if you have the NS430 base module purchased. Just trying it out now. Seems only work with missions including fast, but not instant action. Edited July 1, 2021 by Baltic Pirate More info
unipus Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 4 hours ago, randomTOTEN said: Really not sure what you're going on about at this point. But of course, go on filing your IFR flight plans with the DCS ATC then, I'm sure you'll have good and safe results and many successful flights... Anyway, the Hind ships with charts that give you all the information you need. If you're really not sure what you're heading into, there's big giant numbers that tell you how high you ought to be in the absolute worst case. Won't protect you from radar, won't protect you from AI that can magically see through weather, but it is realistic and doable.
26-J39 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 Bit OT bit still :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b1LMFihSWs
Rongor Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 14 hours ago, Quadg said: MH-53J/M pave low could. it had terrain following and terrain avoidance radar. And forward looking infrared. not sure if the HH/MH-60 pave hawk is the same. FLIR doesn't help that much in IMC.The radar of course does.
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