Communications menu button does not work while airborne

[Lange_666]

@QuiGon: The radio's in general are not the problem. It's fully normal that when not using easy comms, the radio's need to be set to the correct freq to be able to communicate. It's about the the general comms menu, which as i already said can also includes lots of non radio stuff, certainly while multiplaying on certain servers, which stops working once wheels are off the ground. The non radio stuff like PAK info, CTLD commands etc... don't need a radio to be set to make it work or to get info.

The thing is that these are only acessable through the comms menu but that that menu isn't available anymore once wheels (or skids for some helo's) are off the ground. It does not happen on every aircraft, on some aircraft you still have access to the main comms menu with the " \" key, on some you have to use "R_Alt-\" once you get airborne. It's confusing. It should be the same for each and every aircraft.

And don't bring the discussion back to the radio's each time, that's not what this discussion is about.

[QuiGon]

41 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

The thing is that these are only acessable through the comms menu but that that menu isn't available anymore once wheels (or skids for some helo's) are off the ground.

 

That's just not true, which I explained some posts before. You can access the comms menu just fine with easy comms disabled and wheels off the ground. You just need to press the actual mic switch of the aircraft to do so, instead of the generic DCS comms button. And stuff like PAK info or CTLD commands are very well radio stuff in my eyes, as it simulates a radio call to request additional information on the situation on the ground (PAK info) or from a JTAC (CTLD) or stuff like that.

[QuiGon]

3 hours ago, Tom Kazansky said:

Thanks for the track. I have a short track with a hot start and to force an answer from ATC, I had to move the aircraft. (not kidding). I recorded a track (..02.trk) just for the taxi clearence but the same behavior is shown for take-off clearence too. At the end of the track I used Com1 and Com2 switches without sending, just to show how the menus look like.

 

I recorded another track (...03.trk), where you see that I only use comms button (default: ') and have a nice conversation with the ATC. Interesting: when I talk, the Com2 is not used. ATC answers via com2 though. This is at least odd.

 

BEWARE: I still use DCS 2.7.3.8494 - 14.07.2021 (today there was a new OB patch)

 

 

CommsCheck 02.trk 42.03 kB · 1 download CommsCheck 03.trk 63.95 kB · 1 download

 

 

Thanks a lot, this makes a lot of things much clearer. There seem to be some missunderstandings of how radio comms work in DCS:

 

About track 2:

Issue 1 - Why my menu is called "Main" and yours is not: You do a hotstart, meaning an engine startup and an ATC request for engine startup has already happened before you enter the sim. That means you have moved one step ahead in the comms menu already, as the pilot has already made contact with ATC for startup and the next step would be requesting clearence for taxi. This is the reason, why your comms menu doesn't say "main" at the top, but "Nellis Control. Departure Airdrome. Ready to taxi to runway", because it moves you automatically into the ATC submenu (F5) of the comms menu as a consequence of requesting startup, which happened before you entered the sim, because it's a hot start. Notice how it gives you the option to return to the parent menu (F11), which would bring you back to the "main" menu.

Issue 2 - Why you need to start moving to get a response: Well, you don't. They don't even respond to your radio call when you start moving. What actually happens is, that they don't even hear your taxi request, but just assume you want to taxi, because you started moving and thus give you the clearance for taxi. Try it out, they will still give you this clearence, even if you don't request taxi clearence. To actually recieve a taxi clearence without moving you need to make an actual radio call over the radio, so they can hear you. In your track, you enter the ATC freq for radio 2, so you need to use the respective mic switch (COMM2) to request taxi clearence and then they will actually answer your request before you move.

 

About track 3:

No, you don't have a nice conversation with the ATC at all. They don't hear anything from you

Just like in track 2, the ATC just gives you those radio calls, because they see you moving around down there and give you calls based on your movements. You will still recieve these calls, even if you don't use the comms menu to contact ATC, as it doesn't make a difference, as ATC doesn't hear you anyways if you use the generic comms button.

 

So, to sum this up: If you have easy comms disabled and want to talk to someone that is not standing right next to your aircraft (so anyone except the ground crew) you need to use the actual radio mic switches of the radio you want to send your message through! That is the point of using realistic comms instead of easy comms! Notice how the channel display on your Hornets UFC change into some sort of triangle if there is traffic on the radio. In your case it only displays traffic, when ATC is calling you, but not when you call ATC, because you don't use the radios and instead just yell in your cockpit. If you use the actual radio mic switches (COMMS1 and COMMS2 in the Hornet), you can see how the channel display shows actual traffic when you transmit to the ATC and that's when ATC will actually recieve your message and respond.

The generic DCS comms button does only work with the radios if easy comms are enabled, as this is the unrealistic easy way to go for people that don't want to bother with the radios. With easy comms off you can only use it to yell from your cockpit, which only works with the ground crew as they are standing right next to your plane. For actual radio traffic you need to use the corresponding radio mic switch if easy comms are disabled.

Edited July 21, 2021 by QuiGon

[Lange_666]

Again... it's NOT about radio traffic. It's NOT about radio traffic (now did i repeat myself just now?). Check the topic title.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Lange_666

[Tom Kazansky]

13 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

Again... it's NOT about radio traffic. It's NOT about radio traffic (now did i repeat myself just now?). Check the topic title.

 

 

 

agreed. it's still odd that WoW should cause a diffenrent behavior for a virtual key (that does not exist in the real planes anyways.) So why not keep it working when airborne or remove it from realistic comms?

[Tom Kazansky]

30 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

 

Thanks a lot, this makes a lot of things much clearer. There seems to be some missunderstandings of how radio comms work in DCS:

 

About track 2:

Issue 1 - Why my menu is called "Main" and yours is not: You do a hotstart, meaning an engine startup and an ATC request for engine startup has already happened before you enter the sim. That means you have moved one step ahead in the comms menu already, as the pilot has already made contact with ATC for startup and the next step would be requesting clearence for taxi. This is the reason, why your comms menu doesn't say "main" at the top, but "Nellis Control. Departure Airdrome. Ready to taxi to runway", because it moves you automatically into the ATC submenu (F5) of the comms menu as a consequence of requesting startup, which happened before you entered the sim, because it's a hot start. Notice how it gives you the option to return to the parent menu (F11), which would bring you back to the "main" menu.

Issue 2 - Why you need to start moving to get a response: Well, you don't. They don't even respond to your radio call when you start moving. What actually happens is, that they don't even hear your taxi request, but just assume you want to taxi, because you started moving and thus give you the clearance for taxi. Try it out, they will still give you this clearence, even if you don't request taxi clearence. To actually recieve a taxi clearence without moving you need to make an actual radio call over the radio, so they can hear you. In your track, you enter the ATC freq for radio 2, so you need to use the respective mic switch (COMM2) to request taxi clearence and then they will actually answer your request before you move.

 

About track 3:

No, you don't have a nice conversation with the ATC at all. They don't hear anything from you

Just like in track 2, the ATC just gives you those radio calls, because they see you moving around down there and give you calls based on your movements. You will still recieve these calls, even if you don't use the comms menu to contact ATC, as it doesn't make a difference, as ATC doesn't hear you anyways if you use the generic comms button.

 

So, to sum this up: If you have easy comms disabled and want to talk to someone that is not standing right next to your aircraft (so anyone except the ground crew) you need to use the actual radio mic switches of the radio you want to send your message through! That is the point of using realistic comms instead of easy comms! Notice how the channel display on your Hornets UFC change into some sort of triangle if there is traffic on the radio. In your case it only displays traffic, when ATC is calling you, but not when you call ATC, because you don't use the radios and instead just yell in your cockpit. If you use the actual radio mic switches (COMMS1 and COMMS2 in the Hornet), you can see how the channel display shows actual traffic when you transmit to the ATC and that's when ATC will actually recieve your message and respond.

The generic DCS comms button does only work with the radios if easy comms are enabled, as this is the unrealistic easy way to go for people that don't want to bother with the radios. With easy comms off you can only use it to yell from your cockpit, which only works with the ground crew as they are standing right next to your plane. For actual radio traffic you need to use the corresponding radio mic switch if easy comms are disabled.

 

that is very interesting and you got me convinced. I did a check flight and it is exactly like you said with the "answers" I thought I would get from the tower. They don't hear me via comms menu ('). They talk anyways. Not too realistic but ED statet often enough that ATC is under a big overhaul and I'm confident that they will address those things.

 

sorry for derailing the thread a bit, but I wanted to know whether there is a logical explanation for the different behaviour of the Communications menu button on the ground and airborne. I learned quite a bit but I'm not completely happy with the current implementation. I can live with it though.

[QuiGon]

45 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

I learned quite a bit but I'm not completely happy with the current implementation.

 

Me neither, but for completely different reasons than the OP. Unlike the OP said, you can use the comms menu in the air, you just need to use the actual mic switches.

But yeah, the comms and ATC system in DCS is severly lacking in other regards.

[Tom Kazansky]

9 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Unlike the OP said, you can use the comms menu in the air....

To be fair, OP said "Communications menu button" does not work in the air. And that is 100% correct and 0% intuitive and far less than 100% logical imho.

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, Tom Kazansky said:

To be fair, OP said "Communications menu button" does not work in the air. And that is 100% correct and 0% intuitive and far less than 100% logical imho.

 

Okay, yeah, the general DCS comms menu button does indeed not work in the air, but that is intended. I agree, that it's not really intuitive, but it is logical, because it's purpose is to work as a general comms switch with easy comms enabled, so you don't have to deal with the actual radios. With easy comms disabled you are supposed to use the actual radio mic switches of the aircraft to access the comms menu and do radio calls.

Edited July 22, 2021 by QuiGon

[Tom Kazansky]

43 minutes ago, draconus said:

Do I remember correctly that ATC gives you messages despite your radio settings, even with easy comms off? That should also be fixed. But I guess all of these issues wait for major ATC overhaul.

As long as your radio is tuned to the ATC frequency the tower gives you messages even if you did not ask for them and even with easy comms off. See my track ...03.trk

Edited July 22, 2021 by Tom Kazansky

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

Do I remember correctly that ATC gives you messages despite your radio settings, even with easy comms off? That should also be fixed. But I guess all of these issues wait for major ATC overhaul.

 

As @Tom Kazansky said: If you tune your radio to the correct frequency you will hear the radio messages that ATC gives you based on your movements on airfield. I'm not sure what you think should be fixed here (apart from a complete rework of the ATC system)?

Edited July 22, 2021 by QuiGon

[QuiGon]

1 minute ago, draconus said:

It was a question if ATC does it _despite_ radio settings - if you guys are sure that it needs proper freq then there's nothing to fix.

 

Yeah, with easy comms disabled, you need to tune to the actual ATC freq to be able to hear the ATC messages.