HELP: AMRAAM STT vs TWS

[Double Dutch]

I am trying to learn the ins and outs of the AMRAAM and I found it hard because after firing 1 missile (in STT) to lock the next plane. I just saw a grim reapers video and saw an example of ripple fire in TWS.

- how do you lock the next plane in STT

- since default radar setting voor AMRAAM when selecting is I assume that should be the way to go

- you mostly flight multiple planes (2 or 4) so I assume TWS should be the way to go?

 

I think I am missing something, I am using TDC to click the next target in STT but find it hard to select the next plane. Can someone explain how they do this?

[Tholozor]

You can't guide multiple missiles onto different targets at the same time in STT, hence the name 'Single' Target Track. TWS permits you to designate two different targets in a controlled scan volume; the Launch and Steering (L&S) target with the star, and Designated Target 2 (DT2) with the diamond.
- If no L&S exists, depressing the TDC over a ranked track file will designate that track as the L&S.

- If an L&S exists, depressing the TDC over a ranked track file will designate that track as DT2.

- If an L&S and DT2 exist, depressing the TDC over a ranked track file will designate that track as L&S, and the previous L&S will become DT2.

- If an L&S and DT2 exist, pressing the NWS/Undesignate button will swap the L&S and DT2.

- If an L&S exists, and there is no DT2, pressing the NWS/Undesignate button will cycle the L&S through all ranked track files from highest priority to lowest.

 

Launching an AMRAAM will program it to guide to the current L&S at the time the missile is launched. If you want to guide on two targets at the same time, you'll have to designate L&S on one contact, launch, then designate a new contact as L&S while the previous L&S is DT2, then launch again. I find it easiest to designate both targets prior to launch and flipping them with the NWS/Undesignate button.

 

NOTE: Track file memory is incorrectly implemented at the moment. The raw brick aging setting is controlling the amount of time a track file persists in the radar's memory. The default setting for the AMRAAM is 4 seconds, which can lead to a dropped track very quickly. I recommend bumping the aging setting up to 8 or 16 seconds until the correct track file memory functions are implemented (aging setting OSB is in the top-right corner of the radar DATA submenu, you can save the aging setting with the SET function in RWS).

Edited August 9, 2021 by Tholozor

[Double Dutch]

3 hours ago, Tholozor said:

You can't guide multiple missiles onto different targets at the same time in STT, hence the name 'Single' Target Track. TWS permits you to designate two different targets in a controlled scan volume; the Launch and Steering (L&S) target with the star, and Designated Target 2 (DT2) with the diamond.
 

 

I thought the missile went of, and then when it switches to TTG, it used it's own radar and I could select the next missile.

[jacobs]

As stated previously you have to use TWS in order to 'riple-fire' at multiple targets. Just be aware that TWS have a lower scan volume coverage. Usually I user RWS to find targets, than switch to TWS to proceed with engagement. I use a 2 bar - 60º setting, with contacts age set to 16 and change PRF according to target aspect (HI if head on, interleaved if target is maneuvering).  

[Double Dutch]

25 minutes ago, jacobs said:

As stated previously you have to use TWS in order to 'riple-fire' at multiple targets. Just be aware that TWS have a lower scan volume coverage. Usually I user RWS to find targets, than switch to TWS to proceed with engagement. I use a 2 bar - 60º setting, with contacts age set to 16 and change PRF according to target aspect (HI if head on, interleaved if target is maneuvering).  

Ok, when you use STT, I sometimes have damaged, destroyed the first boogie, but don't know how to select the next one. If I slave my TDC to it and press it, even then it will still select the crashing boogie, while I want to select the next one that IS a danger asap.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Double Dutch

[jacobs]

If you are in TWS, you can press NWS/Undesignate button to switch to the next target. This way the secondary target (DT2) will become your primary (L&S) and you can launch the missile against it.

Edited August 9, 2021 by jacobs

[Double Dutch]

6 minutes ago, jacobs said:

If you are in TWS, you can press NWS/Undesignate button to switch to the next target. This way the secondary target (DT2) will become your primary (L&S) and you can launch the missile against it.

 

I know in TWS, I was wondering how you select the next boogie when in STT

[jacobs]

2 minutes ago, Double Dutch said:

I know in TWS, I was wondering how you select the next boogie when in STT

You can't, you need to undesignate to exit from STT, than your radar will return to 'search mode'. Manually find the next target and lock with TDC-press to enter STT again.

 

By the way, when you lock with STT, the enemy RWR will alert about it and usually AI will take defensive mesures. If you use TWS, the enemy RWR will not be alerted. That's why you should prioritize TWS for BVR engagements. 

[Double Dutch]

10 minutes ago, jacobs said:

You can't, you need to undesignate to exit from STT, than your radar will return to 'search mode'. Manually find the next target and lock with TDC-press to enter STT again.

 

By the way, when you lock with STT, the enemy RWR will alert about it and usually AI will take defensive mesures. If you use TWS, the enemy RWR will not be alerted. That's why you should prioritize TWS for BVR engagements. 

Thank you! 

 

I tried that (so I was on the right way) but even clicking with the TDC on another spike didn't really result in another plane being locked.... I will try again tonight now I know how to do it.

[Foka]

I think @Double Dutch is mixing concepts of TWS and STT and all other radar abbreviations. If you'd be in STT you wouldn't see on the radar other contacts. If you do (as you say you can't lock them), that would appear you're in TWS mode and you're locking in L&S.

 

Please refer to Hornet's manual pages from 346 and learn the differences between TWS and RWS. STT and L&S. And how to move between them.

After that skip Gream Rippers "tutorials" and refer to Wags' TWS tutorial:
 

Also, in my exprientce, people saying they can't lock some targets don't understend Data Link and Attack Radar integration, they don't know all HAFU symbols and they try to lock D/L contacts not seen by radar.

[Harker]

Thank you! 
 
I tried that (so I was on the right way) but even clicking with the TDC on another spike didn't really result in another plane being locked.... I will try again tonight now I know how to do it.

Don't try to enter STT with the TDC. It works, but it's a bad habit and it can create problems with closely spaced contacts.

Use TDC Depress to designate your L&S (and DT2). You can then command STT on the L&S with Sensor Control Switch (SCS) towards the radar, when your TDC in open space (not over a contact). So you don't have to deal with double clicking the TDC, potentially designating the wrong contact in the process etc.

You can also command STT by hovering the TDC over a radar contact, without having to designate it as the L&S first, even if another contact is the L&S.

There is also functionality that's correctly not present in DCS, but will hopefully come in the future. Specifically, MSI processing stops when you enter STT from RWS and TWS now, in DCS. But it shouldn't, meaning that you'd still be able to view offboard and radar memory (memory also isn't working correctly right now, plus there's radar memory and MSI memory) HAFUs while in STT. You should also be able to designate any of these HAFUs as the L&S/DT2 and attempt to STT it with the SCS, as described above, even if your own radar is not currently seeing it (it'll command your radar to look at that azimuth and elevation and attempt to locate and lock that contact). Hopefully these features will make their way into DCS and increase our quality of life significantly.

[Foka]

Also when using Sparrow missiles you don't have to use STT. L&S is enough and it will switch to STT automaticly after missile launch.

[Harker]

Also when using Sparrow missiles you don't have to use STT. L&S is enough and it will switch to STT automaticly after missile launch.

You should go STT before launch though, with MSI, especially if your frame times are long. The radar should also transition to TWS AUTO on the L&S from RWS/LTWS, but we don't have that yet.