State of AIM-7 Sparrow fixes?

[Prez]

I've haven't seen any talk about fixing the sparrow on the F-14 since maybe early June. At this time they are still very much broken with the F not guiding when launched at distances greater than 6-7NM and the M still lofting on targets. Also with both the M and MH lofting at very short distances such as within 10NM. I never got a reply when I reported the issue some time ago, and the sparrow has been broken for an unbelievably long time now. So yeah, I just want to know what the status is on fixing the missile's behavior with the F-14. Thank you.

[near_blind]

The MH has also stopped guiding on ECM targets with the ACM cover up. Every patch, a new surprise

[Cpt. Weber]

I'm slowly thinking it would be nice to have a sticky thread about the functionalities of different Sparrow types in different radar modes. It gets gradually more confusing as the manual contains only some information in that regard and the rest (usually even more detailed info) is just spread around the forums in the comments in different threads .

[Prez]

49 minutes ago, Cpt. Weber said:

I'm slowly thinking it would be nice to have a sticky thread about the functionalities of different Sparrow types in different radar modes. It gets gradually more confusing as the manual contains only some information in that regard and the rest (usually even more detailed info) is just spread around the forums in the comments in different threads .

Sparrows are very simply missiles. The literal only difference between them that is super important to understand is the MH has the ability to loft. There's of course a bunch of technical differences between the models, but they aren't complex like the AIM-54 is.

[near_blind]

Yeah, there's not a whole lot to Sparrows compared to all the caveats of the AIM-54. 

 

In DCS, there is no difference in behavior between PD-STT and P-STT. The ACM cover doesn't drastically change missile behavior, it just reduces the LTE from 3s to 1s. The only real 'gotchas' are the F and the M shouldn't loft. The MH should automatically determine whether it lofts with the ACM cover down, and shouldn't loft with the ACM cover up. BRSIT manually engages FLOOD, but that should also kick on if a radar lock is lost anyhow.

[TLTeo]

4 hours ago, near_blind said:

In DCS, there is no difference in behavior between PD-STT and P-STT.

Uh? I'm pretty sure that PD-STT is supposed to act like a Fox 1 all the way to the target, and P-STT is supposed to be active off the rail.

[near_blind]

Just now, TLTeo said:

Uh? I'm pretty sure that PD-STT is supposed to act like a Fox 1 all the way to the target, and P-STT is supposed to be active off the rail.

Unless someone hooked us up with a working Sparrow II, you're going to be hard pressed to find a Sparrow that goes active. 

[TLTeo]

Hooray I win the prize for the dumbest post of the month!

[near_blind]

lol, no worries! We're all friends here. 

[Cpt. Weber]

7 hours ago, near_blind said:

Yeah, there's not a whole lot to Sparrows compared to all the caveats of the AIM-54. 

 

In DCS, there is no difference in behavior between PD-STT and P-STT. The ACM cover doesn't drastically change missile behavior, it just reduces the LTE from 3s to 1s. The only real 'gotchas' are the F and the M shouldn't loft. The MH should automatically determine whether it lofts with the ACM cover down, and shouldn't loft with the ACM cover up. BRSIT manually engages FLOOD, but that should also kick on if a radar lock is lost anyhow.

So again, coming back to my point, the essential info about how they should work (loft/no loft) is here, in yet another thread. 

Theoretically, for someone who is just getting into the Tomcat, it would be hard to distinguish if the behaviour is intended or bugged. Like in the case of lofting M-type.

[Airhunter]

@IronMikeIs this something you guys are aware of for the next major patch? Sparrows have been broken or simply working wrong for the past year or so. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Airhunter

[near_blind]

21 minutes ago, Airhunter said:

@IronMikeIs this something you guys are aware of for the next major patch? Sparrows have been broken or simply working wrong for the past year or so. 

 

 

[Airhunter]

49 minutes ago, near_blind said:

 

 

I thought this was regarding the Phoenix?

[near_blind]

19 minutes ago, Airhunter said:

 

I thought this was regarding the Phoenix?

I would like to live in a world where we got an AIM-54F, M, and Hotel build M, but alas it isn't so. 

 

That was pertaining to the Sparrow ECM and Loft issues. They have also worked with ED to consolidate back down to using just the ED sparrows instead of a parallel copy, so there should be a single source of truth going forward.

[Airhunter]

Hopefully this is finally fixed next patch. The switch to ED's AIM-7's happened a long time ago afaik.

[near_blind]

What would happen in the past was the values for HBs parallel Sparrow were updated to reflect changes made to EDs Sparrow. HBs Sparrow is being removed from the game next update because it's no longer needed: they were able to fix the reason the copy was necessary. Starting then all aircraft will be using the ED Sparrows.

[Airhunter]

12 hours ago, near_blind said:

What would happen in the past was the values for HBs parallel Sparrow were updated to reflect changes made to EDs Sparrow. HBs Sparrow is being removed from the game next update because it's no longer needed: they were able to fix the reason the copy was necessary. Starting then all aircraft will be using the ED Sparrows.

 

Good to hear! I also hope the ACM cover behavior for the MH will work proper now.

[captain_dalan]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:06 AM, near_blind said:

What would happen in the past was the values for HBs parallel Sparrow were updated to reflect changes made to EDs Sparrow. HBs Sparrow is being removed from the game next update because it's no longer needed: they were able to fix the reason the copy was necessary. Starting then all aircraft will be using the ED Sparrows.

That's a welcome news indeed!

[IronMike]

Given all tests go well, indeed the ED sparrows replacing ours should be in the next patch.

[Hawkeye91]

30 minutes ago, IronMike said:

Given all tests go well, indeed the ED sparrows replacing ours should be in the next patch.

I must be going crazy, I thought this happened over a ago! 

[captain_dalan]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye91 said:

I must be going crazy, I thought this happened over a ago! 

Admit it, you NEVER use Sparrows, do ya? SHAME!  

[Hawkeye91]

1 hour ago, captain_dalan said:

Admit it, you NEVER use Sparrows, do ya? SHAME!  

On the contrary, I usually try to use a 2/2/2 load out and use Phoenixes >30 miles, and sparrows >10 if anything is left! Though my success rate has to be less than half with the sparrows 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Hawkeye91

[IronMike]

22 hours ago, Hawkeye91 said:

I must be going crazy, I thought this happened over a ago! 

 

You probably mistook us updating ours with ED's code, rather than tossing ours altogether and exclusively using the ED sparrows. The issue was that we could not rotate them before, or better: they would not get ejected properly, so we had to make a rotated copy that else used the same code. This is an issue ED solved in the meantime, which means we do not have to make a rotated copy anymore, and can simply use the default ED sparrows now, which will eject correctly even if rotated. This also means that whatever was causing issues, despite us copying over their exact code, has been eliminated now, and any issues with sparrows will be general, as with all other modules/ platforms that use them.

[captain_dalan]

17 hours ago, Hawkeye91 said:

On the contrary, I usually try to use a 2/2/2 load out and use Phoenixes >30 miles, and sparrows >10 if anything is left! Though my success rate has to be less than half with the sparrows 

 

Ooh nice! Similar to what i usually do, 4x2x2 or 2x3x2 with the tanks added of course. My success rate is hard to estimate though, as the missiles changed often in last 2 years. At the best of times, i'd say slightly better then 50%, even when the first one is fired as a deterrent. For well timed shots, fired inside best parameters even up to 70-75%. At worst, especially before i disabled the Jester auto P-STT option, it was abysmal, something like 20-25%. 

They seam rather bad down low, like south of 5000ft, when they turn into a WVR missile essentially. Angels 15 and above they can be useful for 10+ NM shots, which fills the Phoenix - Sidewinder gap nicely  

Edited September 8, 2021 by captain_dalan