Red Flag Su-30 MKI Lectures Video

[Kula66]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRIr2ak2IM0

 

part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBEfUUoUC4k

Edited November 5, 2008 by Kula66

[Renato71]

gone...

This video has been removed by the user.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Renato71

[Case]

Wow, amazing stuff! Very interesting. Excellent find! :thumbup:

[wasserfall]

Well,.. a very patriotic guy, but that's just one side of the story as always

i leave it to this, don't won't to go ranting

[RedTiger]

Well,.. a very patriotic guy, but that's just one side of the story as always

i leave it to this, don't won't to go ranting

 

I'll give you some points in his comments about the French in Red Flag and GW. True or not, that was harsh. :shocking:

 

Other than that, I don't think he was as one-sided as he could could have been. He gave the Indians props on their professionalism. He felt that the MiG-21 Bison their vets flew was a good WVR plane and made no reservations about expressing that. He went so far as to give his assessment that the Su-30MKI was slightly better than the F-15 and F-16 and basically said that it is a matter of the Indians getting some flight hours in it to be up at the levels those Viper and Eagle pilots are at -- which makes sense given the fact that there are guys out there with thousands of hours in those planes.

 

The bit about the FOD damage was crazy. I wonder what exactly made those Flankers more susceptible to FOD? Lower quality construction? Lower quality metal? The information about the F-15's ability to fight with an actual combat load parallels a discussion elsewhere on this board. Am I the only one who didn't know this? I find that amazing!

Edited November 7, 2008 by RedTiger

[Francous]

Dead links :(

[nscode]

Oh, he was one-sided all right.... Raptor-sided

[IvanK]

They didnt last long .... !

[Cosmonaut]

I'll give you some points in his comments about the French in Red Flag and GW. True or not, that was harsh. :shocking:

 

Other than that, I don't think he was as one-sided as he could could have been. He gave the Indians props on their professionalism. He felt that the MiG-21 Bison their vets flew was a good WVR plane and made no reservations about expressing that. He went so far as to give his assessment that the Su-30MKI was slightly better than the F-15 and F-16 and basically said that it is a matter of the Indians getting some flight hours in it to be up at the levels those Viper and Eagle pilots are at -- which makes sense given the fact that there are guys out there with thousands of hours in those planes.

 

The bit about the FOD damage was crazy. I wonder what exactly made those Flankers more susceptible to FOD? Lower quality construction? Lower quality metal? The information about the F-15's ability to fight with an actual combat load parallels a discussion elsewhere on this board. Am I the only one who didn't know this? I find that amazing!

 

 

I pretty much agree. He basically said when we fought in India we got a bloody nose and when they fought at RF they got beat up a little and he gave good reasons too. The IAF have got to sort out the IFF situation or it'll be impossible for them to engage freely. But it doesn't sound like they suffered in the aggression department and I bet they learned a lot about integrating into the western systems. The IAF have a unique mentoring system for their MKI pilots with a very high standard of professionalism so I'm not surprised they never had any flying violations. All in all they did pretty good for a first time.

 

As for the FOD damage I think they were paranoid, with good reason, because they never turned up with any spare engines so any damage meant trip back to Russia for the engine.

 

The F15 fighting with drop tanks and weapons load . hmm well would that be possible with a better trained Su30 crew? I can't remember the exact context in which he said it but yeah very impressive.

 

Anyway I found one of the most interesting pieces of info was his insight into how to fight a thrust vectoring fighter (F22) with an in experienced [i meant inexperienced] pilot/ crew at the controls. "Just wait for him to stall in the turn then climb and go to guns on him". Here's my favorite in cockpit picture of all time :D and I wonder if that's what was going on here.

 

Bug bites bird :P .

 

Edited November 7, 2008 by Cosmonaut

[X-man]

As for the FOD damage I think they were paranoid, with good reason, because they never turned up with any spare engines so any damage meant trip back to Russia for the engine.

QFT. I would also be paranoid if any damage would mean grounded til Russia sends new engines...:helpsmilie:

[GGTharos]

The F15 fighting with drop tanks and weapons load . hmm well would that be possible with a better trained Su30 crew? I can't remember the exact context in which he said it but yeah very impressive.

 

F-15 pilots train with those sort of loads. None of that silly '50% fuel and clean' that HL'ers like to do. You fight with what you get to the merge with.

 

Anyway I found one of the most interesting pieces of info was his insight into how to fight a thrust vectoring fighter (F22) with an in experienced pilot/ crew at the controls. "Just wait for him to stall in the turn then climb and go to guns on him".

 

That is when you have an IN-experienced pilot flying an F-22. As mentioned in the video, the experienced pilot will just sustain his 28DPS turn and leave you wishing he'll do something silly so you can at least get the chance at saying 'Cosmonaut's offensive on that Raptor'. ;)

 

 

Here's my favorite in cockpit picture of all time :D and I wonder if that's what was going on here.

 

That, or regeneration - there are no details on what happened. The question you should be asking though is ... how many superbugs died to get this one its shot? ;) That's the important one.

[RedTiger]

Oh, he was one-sided all right.... Raptor-sided

 

You know, I'm going to risk all-out war here and just say I don't get what the big deal about all this is. Why is it so painful for people to possibly consider a plane that was developed in the mid 90s, operational in the 2000s, in which the country with the biggest military budget in the world, which never stopped researching and developing at full steam and probably spared no expense, building on the experience of another aircraft from 30 years before with a proven combat record just might, you know, be really good?

 

Forget about who makes it...just view it as an aircraft. Is that possible? Does that help it to be seen simply for what it is and is not? Is it the fanbois who kill it for you? :D

 

That pilot said more in comparison to the USAF's own legacy aircraft vs. the Raptor than anything disparaging about the Sukhois vs. the Raptor! He was using those experiences to compare the tactics used againsts the Sukhois. Honestly, he was putting the Raptor and the Sukhoi in the same category as "planes better than the F-15 and F-16". He was giving similarities between fighting both of them WVR since they both have thrust vectoring.

 

Another thing too; he pointed out that pilot skill is still the most important thing. Yeah, in the same breath he said "WVR vs. the Raptor doesn't happen because you die before you get to the merge", he did mention that a rookie mistake in the F-22 is to get greedy and pull more angles than it can handle without stalling.

[RedTiger]

Anyway I found one of the most interesting pieces of info was his insight into how to fight a thrust vectoring fighter (F22) with an in experienced pilot/ crew at the controls. "Just wait for him to stall in the turn then climb and go to guns on him". Here's my favorite in cockpit picture of all time :D and I wonder if that's what was going on here.

 

No.

 

It stinks that it was removed, I watched it several times before then. He said that this was a rookie mistake. Think about it, why would an experienced pilot do this?

[Cosmonaut]

That is when you have an IN-experienced pilot flying an F-22. As mentioned in the video, the experienced pilot will just sustain his 28DPS turn and leave you wishing he'll do something silly so you can at least get the chance at saying 'Cosmonaut's offensive on that Raptor'. ;)

 

My bad . typo on my part I meant inexperienced.

 

 

... how many superbugs died to get this one its shot? ;) That's the important one.

 

Every time I post that picture you always pull it apart .. LOL. Ok If the fight started BVR then I'd say 6 bugs were lost seeing as the Raptor carries 6 amraams.. I think. I'm not including aim 9's cuz that would be cruel. :P

[GGTharos]

The real answer is that by the time that superbug had its shot, the F-22's had already downed 100 planes or so ;)

[DarkWanderer]

the F-22's had already downed 100 planes or so

The F-22 has no kills on record

[Cosmonaut]

The F-22 has no kills on record

 

Simulated it has thousands of kills ;) .

 

Although 100 planes .. in one flight? If so then that would have been one expensive test.

[GGTharos]

In this context (which is, the exercises done to validate its existance) it has many.

 

The F-22 has no kills on record

[GGTharos]

Not necessarily in one flight. The idea is that with the stands having ended up as they have, you need to sacrifice a squadron of aircraft for a shot at a raptor.

 

Simulated it has thousands of kills ;) .

 

Although 100 planes .. in one flight? If so then that would have been one expensive test.

[RedTiger]

THE most intriguing thing from that video was towards the end of the second part. He said that maneuverability and having a gun would continue to be important because the Raptor doesn't carry a terribly large amount of missiles. You can assume he's talking about keeping the jet clean and stealthy I guess.

 

His opinion that it may end up being that the Raptor has to gun down its enemies is hard to believe. Cetainly you train for it, but would you actually do it in all but the most dire of circumstances? Sending that expensive plane into a gunzo sounds like a bad idea. As good as it may be, you'd be increasing the chances of it being lost, probably exponentially higher than the chances at BVR. I think its much more likely you'd hang around and help out the F-15s, F-16s, etc. on datalink that you've just kicked in the door for if you didn't immediately RTB.

[GGTharos]

Yep, but keep in mind that the number of Raptors is small - thy wanted 760 and they got 1/4 of that. It's a serious problem for the USAF.

[wasserfall]

About the IFF, even in lockon you can determine friend from enemy, why coudn't they?

And do they have an datalink? maybe someone here knows?

 

As for the fod, the SU30 has a fod grill just to prevent that, and if you look at Russian airfields

it is needed to say the least.

But offcourse if they didn't had any spare engines, it better not to risk damage.

 

I did see the SU30MKI perform in reall life , so i'm not totaly objective:)

 

Cheers!

[GGTharos]

Incompatible IFF system?

They have the russian datalink.

 

As for the FoD, you better believe those engines will FOD up. The Soviest built a lot of spare engines for this reason AND the short lifespan of their engines.

[RedTiger]

About the IFF, even in lockon you can determine friend from enemy, why coudn't they?

And do they have an datalink? maybe someone here knows?

 

 

There's something of an ID matrix F-15 pilots use to identify bogeys, IFF is just one of several things they may need to do. Lockon has IFF as this thing thats always on when in reality you have to actually "interrogate" the contacts by pressing a button. Did he mention IFF? I only remember the issues with datalink. Man, that would be the first thing I'd change. Not being able to plug into the link with everyone else is a big disadvantage.

 

Can anyone guess why they were removed?

Edited November 7, 2008 by RedTiger

[nscode]

@RedTiger:

I wasn't commenting on the plane, but on this infomercial