I'm having trouble understanding when the aim54 will go active once track is lost and timer hits 16 seconds

[Skarp]

When using the aim54 i often will lose the target and I get the nice X under the target track. I'll watch the timer go down but it does not go active most of the time. Is there a limit time i can keep a track and allow the aim54 to go active? I always thought if i lost track and keep the timer on the tid it would always command the aim54 to go active once the timer hits 16 seconds.

[Naquaii]

It doesn't really have anything to do with time, depending on what is set using the target size switch the AIM-54 will be commanded active at a given calculated range to target. At that time the missile will have to be within AWG-9 radar scan zone so that the WCS can command the missile active. If it isn't the missile will never get the command as it's transmitted via the radar. After that it's also a matter of if the target is close enough to the missile for it to see it the track is lost. If the track has moved far enough away from the calculated lost position the missile won't find it.

 

So unlike newer missiles you need to look at the target and the missile with the radar until it goes active at which time the TTI numbers will flash.

[QuiGon]

15 hours ago, Naquaii said:

It doesn't really have anything to do with time, depending on what is set using the target size switch the AIM-54 will be commanded active at a given calculated range to target. At that time the missile will have to be within AWG-9 radar scan zone so that the WCS can command the missile active. If it isn't the missile will never get the command as it's transmitted via the radar. After that it's also a matter of if the target is close enough to the missile for it to see it the track is lost. If the track has moved far enough away from the calculated lost position the missile won't find it.

 

So unlike newer missiles you need to look at the target and the missile with the radar until it goes active at which time the TTI numbers will flash.

 

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think I have ever seen the TTI numbers starting to flash after the track was lost ("X" over the track on the TID). That makes it difficult to tell when the GO-ACTIVE command has been send.

Does the missile need to confirm the reception of the command to make the TTI numbers flashing or should they start flashing when the command has been send out, regardless of the missile actually recieving the signal?

[DSplayer]

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think I have ever seen the TTI numbers starting to flash after the track was lost ("X" over the track on the TID). That makes it difficult to tell when the GO-ACTIVE command has been send.

Does the missile need to confirm the reception of the command to make the TTI numbers flashing or should they start flashing when the command has been send out, regardless of the missile actually recieving the signal?

When it flashes, its active even if you get an X. The missile can go active on a track hold target that has been X'd out if the missile sees something.

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, DSplayer said:

When it flashes, its active even if you get an X. The missile can go active on a track hold target that has been X'd out if the missile sees something.

 

I know that it is active when it flashes, but I never see it flashing on X'd out contacts! That's why I'm asking how/when the missile goes active on them?

Edited September 13, 2021 by QuiGon

[Comstedt86]

I'd like to know this as well, I've rarely seen them go active on a lost track. Maybe twice in 100+ lost but held tracks. Would be nice to know the needed parameters for it to happen. 

[DSplayer]

9 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

I know that it is active when it flashes, but I never see it flashing on X'd out contacts! That's why I'm asking how/when the missile goes active on them?

 

It goes active when there is something is in the expected vicinity of the track hold target iirc. Track hold targets are generally never accurate anyway and I’ve had X’d out targets go active when they only get X’d out just before active.

[Naquaii]

14 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think I have ever seen the TTI numbers starting to flash after the track was lost ("X" over the track on the TID). That makes it difficult to tell when the GO-ACTIVE command has been send.

Does the missile need to confirm the reception of the command to make the TTI numbers flashing or should they start flashing when the command has been send out, regardless of the missile actually recieving the signal?

 

It should be the same regardless, maybe it's harder to see if it's a lost track but I'd have to check.

The missile does not confirm anything, it doesn't send anything back to the AWG-9. Active indication is simply that the active command has been sent.

[captain_dalan]

20 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

I know that it is active when it flashes, but I never see it flashing on X'd out contacts! That's why I'm asking how/when the missile goes active on them?

 

Has the radar reacquired the target and built a new track after losing the original one?

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

Has the radar reacquired the target and built a new track after losing the original one?

 

Sometimes it does, sometimes it does not. Makes no difference as far as I can see

Edited September 14, 2021 by QuiGon

[Skarp]

Yeah this is my issue is the missile won’t go active no matter if I have the track or not once I lost the track.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Skarp

[splash]

+1. I have exactly the same problem.

[Naquaii]

7 hours ago, Skarp said:

Yeah this is my issue is the missile won’t go active no matter if I have the track or not once I lost the track.

 

 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. If you have no track for the target on the TID (no trackfile) the missile will never go active in any situations as the WCS has in effect stopped supporting the missile as it has no track associated with the missile anymore. A lost track (marked with an X) should still allow the WCS to send the active command if the track position is within the antenna scan zone (i.e. the radar will sweep past the missile and be able to send the commands). Wether the missile will actually track will then depend on if the target is close enough to the extrapolated, lost track that the missile seeker can see it.

[QuiGon]

12 hours ago, Naquaii said:

A lost track (marked with an X) should still allow the WCS to send the active command if the track position is within the antenna scan zone (i.e. the radar will sweep past the missile and be able to send the commands). Wether the missile will actually track will then depend on if the target is close enough to the extrapolated, lost track that the missile seeker can see it.

 

This is the exacxt situation I was talking about. I NEVER get a flashing TTI on a lost track. Sometimes the missiles hits regardless, indicating that it has in fact recieved a go active signal, but the TTI doesn't indicate that on lost tracks.

[DSplayer]

1 hour ago, QuiGon said:

 

This is the exacxt situation I was talking about. I NEVER get a flashing TTI on a lost track. Sometimes the missiles hits regardless, indicating that it has in fact recieved a go active signal, but the TTI doesn't indicate that on lost tracks.

Here is some footage of me getting a blinking TTI active indication on an X'd target and then it getting splashed:

 

https://streamable.com/ylzxa4

 

The missile would go active if the target is roughly around the predicted area but I think the problem you are having could very well be desync or server based. Usually X'd targets never go active anyway and even if they do, the missile is probably out of energy due to inefficient flight paths which mean that you won't get a kill. I'm just saying it's possible and it's not just some magic thing that you only hear about in story tales. 

--

After rereading the entire thread, I think your position is that the missile should always go active at 8-26 TTI (depending on target size switch position) but from my understanding, the missile goes active off of distance instead of TTI so if there is no target within such distance, the missile doesn't go active. Since X'd targets are generally never close to where the actual target is, the missile never goes to the correct spot to go active. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by DSplayer

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, DSplayer said:

Here is some footage of me getting a blinking TTI active indication on an X'd target and then it getting splashed:

 

https://streamable.com/ylzxa4

 

Interesting. I guess I have just been extremely unlucky in this regard then. Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, DSplayer said:

The missile would go active if the target is roughly around the predicted area but I think the problem you are having could very well be desync or server based. Usually X'd targets never go active anyway and even if they do, the missile is probably out of energy due to inefficient flight paths which mean that you won't get a kill. I'm just saying it's possible and it's not just some magic thing that you only hear about in story tales.

After rereading the entire thread, I think your position is that the missile should always go active at 8-26 TTI (depending on target size switch position) but from my understanding, the missile goes active off of distance instead of TTI so if there is no target within such distance, the missile doesn't go active. Since X'd targets are generally never close to where the actual target is, the missile never goes to the correct spot to go active.

 

I would indeed expect that the WCS always sends the go-active command when the missile reaches the set range (depending on target size switch) to the target track, regardless if it is still an active track or a lost track, but that is not what I'm seeing in DCS. I always see the timer on lost tracks to go well beneath the expected gi-active TTI (~8-26 secs) without starting to blink and I don't understand why that is

The actual position of the bandit shouldn't matter, as the missile can't know if it is close to the actual bandit when the missile hasn't gone active yet. It can only know through data link if it is close to the X'd track that the WCS is extrapolating.

Edited September 16, 2021 by QuiGon