Griffon Spitfire

[IcedVenom]

I've always wanted to fly one of these beasts in a proper sim. I'm not big on IL-2 so I won't be purchasing Bodenplatte. Any chance we could get a Spitfire that rivals the Bf-109K we have in-game?

[Belphe]

I would LOVE to fly the Griffon Spitfire in DCS, specifically Spitfire FR Mk XIV!

Edited November 22, 2021 by Belphe

[rkk01]

Or one of these…

 

 

[upyr1]

Both would be awesome especially if Eagle discounted them for folks with the existing spitfire

[IcedVenom]

6 hours ago, upyr1 said:

Both would be awesome especially if Eagle discounted them for folks with the existing spitfire

That's like saying Anton users should get Dora for a discount. I think they are different enough.

[rkk01]

16 minutes ago, IcedVenom said:

That's like saying Anton users should get Dora for a discount. I think they are different enough.

Yes, agree with this point…

But a Griffin Spitfire with a Griffin Seafire could work as a combo package.

Likewise a Merlin engined Seafire as an uplift to the Spit Mk.IX

Increases the usage options for the module(s), especially if / when the focus turns to the Pacific

[Belphe]

Hate me for it but I wouldn't mind paying the full price for a mkxiv...

[rkk01]

12 minutes ago, Belphe said:

Hate me for it but I wouldn't mind paying the full price for a mkxiv...

I think that’s what we are all saying
 

I’d just like the opportunity to play around on board boats - so a hooked version in the same package would be very, very welcome

Edited November 24, 2021 by rkk01

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, IcedVenom said:

That's like saying Anton users should get Dora for a discount. I think they are different enough.

 I think that should have been the case too. The real deciding factor though is how much work it would take to transform one variant to another as well as what will it take to get people to buy different versions. 

[upyr1]

5 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Yes, agree with this point…

But a Griffin Spitfire with a Griffin Seafire could work as a combo package.

Likewise a Merlin engined Seafire as an uplift to the Spit Mk.IX

Increases the usage options for the module(s), especially if / when the focus turns to the Pacific

This would be the minimum, in terms of a discount. As I have said on other posts when it comes to multiple versions of the same aircraft DCS needs to have combo packs and discounts based on how much the variants differ as I figure it will increase the odds of people buying both. 

[DD_Fenrir]

There's a great deal of naivety on display here.

Problems in converting the Spitfire LFIX to F.XIV:

1. External 3D model - The airframes of the Mk.IX and Mk.XIV are significantly different structurally and superficially. Different ailerons sizes, larger vertical stab and rudder with different vertical stab offset to counter the opposite engine rotation. Stronger and heavier longerons to support the extra weight of the Griffon. Retractable tail wheel. Wing root fuel tanks. Larger radiators, completely different nose profile, and propeller. You can't just tweak the Mk.IX model, you have to build from scratch.

2. Cockpit 3D model - you may be able to use some base elements of the IX but the throttle quadrant would need to be completely rebuilt as a new type was introduced on the XIV. Also changes to some gauges and ancillaries.

2. FM - again, profound changes; different ailerons sizes, larger vertical stab and rudder with different vertical stab offset to counter the opposite engine rotation,  completely different nose profile and propeller and thusly a different thrustline with larger radiators. You may be able to use the IX as a starting point but you have to build an entirely new engine and cooling model and recalculate the drag for the entire airframe. Does that sound insignificant to you?

Seafire variations on the above suffer many of the same issues; the Merlin Seafire (III) is a heavily modified Mk.V, not a IX; it has a single stage Merlin, ergo the nose is shorter than the Mk.IX; the same issue is raised in regards the Griffon Seafire in comparison to it's land based equivalent (which is closer to a Mk.XII than a XIV). Both would require remodelling of the wing 3D art to allow for wing folding mechanisms. The fuselage requires remodelling to incorporate the arrestor gear. The Seafire III also has the radiator format of the earlier Mk. Spit.

Take all the above Seafire visual element changes and apply these to the flight model; damage model too.

Any one who thinks that any of these is an overnight job for ED or that it doesn't warrant full price module fees... well.

[rkk01]

Agree with the above… unfortunately

Seafire evolution from the Spitfire line is not straightforward, so from ED perspective it would need to be a separate module (with low sales potential)

OTOH, as a community mod, a hooked Mk.IX of future Mk.XIV would be better than the current options for WW2 carrier ops

As for Anton and Dora - clearly these are different aircraft…. Not sure how it arguable that Anton should have been added to the Dora module.  That logic kind of works for a future F8, but equally probably explains why the F8 hasn’t appeared 

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

There's a great deal of naivety on display here.

Problems in converting the Spitfire LFIX to F.XIV:

1. External 3D model - The airframes of the Mk.IX and Mk.XIV are significantly different structurally and superficially. Different ailerons sizes, larger vertical stab and rudder with different vertical stab offset to counter the opposite engine rotation. Stronger and heavier longerons to support the extra weight of the Griffon. Retractable tail wheel. Wing root fuel tanks. Larger radiators, completely different nose profile, and propeller. You can't just tweak the Mk.IX model, you have to build from scratch.

2. Cockpit 3D model - you may be able to use some base elements of the IX but the throttle quadrant would need to be completely rebuilt as a new type was introduced on the XIV. Also changes to some gauges and ancillaries.

2. FM - again, profound changes; different ailerons sizes, larger vertical stab and rudder with different vertical stab offset to counter the opposite engine rotation,  completely different nose profile and propeller and thusly a different thrustline with larger radiators. You may be able to use the IX as a starting point but you have to build an entirely new engine and cooling model and recalculate the drag for the entire airframe. Does that sound insignificant to you?

Seafire variations on the above suffer many of the same issues; the Merlin Seafire (III) is a heavily modified Mk.V, not a IX; it has a single stage Merlin, ergo the nose is shorter than the Mk.IX; the same issue is raised in regards the Griffon Seafire in comparison to it's land based equivalent (which is closer to a Mk.XII than a XIV). Both would require remodelling of the wing 3D art to allow for wing folding mechanisms. The fuselage requires remodelling to incorporate the arrestor gear. The Seafire III also has the radiator format of the earlier Mk. Spit.

Take all the above Seafire visual element changes and apply these to the flight model; damage model too.

Any one who thinks that any of these is an overnight job for ED or that it doesn't warrant full price module fees... well.

I am under no illusion that an aircraft variant will be quick or easy. I am though saying that as a general rule there should be a bundle discount based on how much code the variants would share. The discount might be a dollar 50 cents something like that if they don't share much except a designation.

[Baltic Dude]

I also hope for a Griffon Spitfire module in the future to compete with the 109K