AIM-54 pylons will disappear if I add AIM-7

[Pew Pew Bom]

The AIM-54 pylons will disappear if I add the AIM-7 on station 3 or 6.

[RustBelt]

I'm not sure you're supposed to be able to do that at all, I thought you always had to have Phoenix 3 and 6 in order to put them at 5 and 4?

[captain_dalan]

In mission editor. But inside the mission itself? 

[Naquaii]

That loadout isn't realistic. Unfortunately we haven't really found a good way to prohibit it in the ME but IRL that wouldn't work as the coolant for the AIM-54 is in the front cowlings of the forward rails.

[QuiGon]

15 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

That loadout isn't realistic. Unfortunately we haven't really found a good way to prohibit it in the ME but IRL that wouldn't work as the coolant for the AIM-54 is in the front cowlings of the forward rails.

 

Is there an overview over what combinations are possible IRL and which are not?

Especially in multiplayer with disabled external views I'm often wondering what loadout is realistically possible and which loadout would not be possible and cause clipping and other visual glitches as seen above.

 

From your comment I take away, that I should never take rear Phoenixes if I don't have forward Phoenixes, which is good to know! How about having Phoenixes up front and bombs (all sizes?) at the rear?

[Karon]

5 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

 

Is there an overview over what combinations are possible IRL and which are not?

Especially in multiplayer with disabled external views I'm often wondering what loadout is realistically possible and which loadout would not be possible and cause clipping and other visual glitches as seen above.

 

From your comment I take away, that I should never take rear Phoenixes if I don't have forward Phoenixes, which is good to know! How about having Phoenixes up front and bombs (all sizes?) at the rear?

Not the answer to your question, but sometimes the AIM-54s were carried in pylon 1 and 8 when bombs were carried in 3/6. See Bio's "Tomcat RIO".
Another unexpected but realistic config is similar to the precedent, but with one 54, the LANTIRN, two Mk20 and an AIM-7 behind (#5).

I leave the proper answer to Naquaii, but I wonder if they simply mounted them on 1/8 rather than carrying the bombs behind the pair of Phoenixes.

[Naquaii]

3 minutes ago, Karon said:

Not the answer to your question, but sometimes the AIM-54s were carried in pylon 1 and 8 when bombs were carried in 3/6. See Bio's "Tomcat RIO".
Another unexpected but realistic config is similar to the precedent, but with one 54, the LANTIRN, two Mk20 and an AIM-7 behind (#5).

I leave the proper answer to Naquaii, but I wonder if they simply mounted them on 1/8 rather than carrying the bombs behind the pair of Phoenixes.

 

The important point here is the presence of the cooling cowls, those can be mounted as long as the phoenix pallets are there, even if bombs are mounted.

 

Having two AIM-54 up front and bombs aft is ok. While technically possible I guess bombs front and phoenix back should work but was never done.

It's the front two sparrows that preclude the AIM-54 as they make it impossible to mount the front phoenix pallets.

[QuiGon]

33 minutes ago, Karon said:

Not the answer to your question, but sometimes the AIM-54s were carried in pylon 1 and 8 when bombs were carried in 3/6. See Bio's "Tomcat RIO".
Another unexpected but realistic config is similar to the precedent, but with one 54, the LANTIRN, two Mk20 and an AIM-7 behind (#5).

I leave the proper answer to Naquaii, but I wonder if they simply mounted them on 1/8 rather than carrying the bombs behind the pair of Phoenixes.

 

Yeah, I actually own this book and have read it too (see edit below), so I'm aware of these loadouts, but I'm never sure about having Phoenixes in the tunnel together with bombs.

 

28 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

 

The important point here is the presence of the cooling cowls, those can be mounted as long as the phoenix pallets are there, even if bombs are mounted.

 

Having two AIM-54 up front and bombs aft is ok. While technically possible I guess bombs front and phoenix back should work but was never done.

It's the front two sparrows that preclude the AIM-54 as they make it impossible to mount the front phoenix pallets.

 

I see. I'm always afraid that there is not enough space there to have Phoenixes and bigger bombs (GBU-24) next to each other, so that they would clip into each other, even though it doesn't have any effect in DCS apart from the visuals.

 

Edit:

Edited October 1, 2021 by QuiGon

[Katj]

 
While technically possible I guess bombs front and phoenix back should work but was never done.

Wouldn't that require you to jettison the phoenixes if you wanted to drop the bombs, for stability?

[BreaKKer]

21 minutes ago, Katj said:

 

Wouldn't that require you to jettison the phoenixes if you wanted to drop the bombs, for stability?

Would throw off CG, yes

[Karon]

1 hour ago, QuiGon said:

 

Yeah, I actually own this book and have read it too (see edit below), so I'm aware of these loadouts, but I'm never sure about having Phoenixes in the tunnel together with bombs.

 

 

I see. I'm always afraid that there is not enough space there to have Phoenixes and bigger bombs (GBU-24) next to each other, so that they would clip into each other, even though it doesn't have any effect in DCS apart from the visuals.

 

Edit:

 

Exactly that picture. I didn't want to paste it for rights & stuff.

(fun fact, I quickly recreated it in DCS just to avoid issues for my book/manual a few weeks ago):

What I found interesting is how unbalanced that setup is (wight-wise, 27% pylon 8; 39% pancake; 17% pylon 1 - this with full fuel), but this is going OT.

@Naquaii: note, thanks!

[Naquaii]

6 hours ago, Katj said:

 

Wouldn't that require you to jettison the phoenixes if you wanted to drop the bombs, for stability?

 

Might be, I'm just saying it was likely technically possible in regards to AIM-54 cooling. But afaik it wasn't an approved loadout.