Aerial refuelling question.

[Bremspropeller]

On 10/31/2021 at 10:02 PM, Cathnan said:

I've learned it first in the Hornet using the tanker as reference. And I must say, I'm glad I learned it that way. I got the Harrier during the sale right now, and I'd say it took me about 30 attempts to plug. Being used to have the tanker as reference helped me here for sure because in the Harrier the basket is outside of peripheral vision while you're plugged. Of course always do what works for you. Imo this is just something to think about while teaching someone. They may want to learn a module later in which you can't see the basket.

I think that's great advice!

 

If you think about it, flying a sight picture will always yield the best results, as it puts the airplane into a spot from where the actual plug is relatively easy to obtain. Also, it doesn't set you up for heartbreak in another module, when you figure out, things aren't working out anymore.

The Hornet is rather easy to tank - coming back from other airplanes. First, you can actually see the probe and second, you can actually see the tanker. In the Harrier you can't see the former, in the Tomcat (tanking off a Viking) you almost can't see Jack Turd of the latter.

Hence, it's better to learn starategies (like developing a good feeling for a workable sight-picture for your aircraft) and then apply this to other aircraft. You won't get around learning the new sight-picture, but figuring out that this is 80% of the work has you better off than just mindlessly trying to stab for that &/(%)&% basket.

Also, as others have said, sticking it in is just half of the job. It's what you do afterwards that does all the magic. Make sure you develop a good reference and try to stay close to that reference. I'm usually trying to form up on the pod.

Furthermore, know that with significant changes in weight, a significant change in power and possibly trim may be necessary - especially when your airspeed and/ or altitude isn't ideal. Ever tried to tank on a slow tanker with an asymmetric loadout in a turn? You'll come up with new colourful descriptions for tanker-pilots, but when you've done it successully, it puts a smile on your inner face.

Another important piece of advice is taking things slow. Don't come in with a duckton of overtake. Just try to slowly and positively make the airplane go where you want it to. Not just jerking about your stick, but deliberately commanding the airplane to go where you want it, when you want it. If that works, try speeding up the process a little, to stay excited. Try out several different speeds and configurations on your airplane. Maybe try to start working TACAN and setting speed/ overtake-gates for fixed distances. The more controllable you're traing to make this, the higher the probablility of success.

The most important part might be this: Don't actually try to hit the basket for the first 20 times. Just fly in formation with the tanker. Switch sides, do underpasses and allways try do make the airplane do exactly what you want it to. Sounds boring, but it actually is a lot of fun - especially when you're coming out on the sunny side of things, and it all starts to click in place.

[Taz1004]

On 10/31/2021 at 5:02 PM, Cathnan said:

I've learned it first in the Hornet using the tanker as reference. And I must say, I'm glad I learned it that way. I got the Harrier during the sale right now, and I'd say it took me about 30 attempts to plug. Being used to have the tanker as reference helped me here for sure because in the Harrier the basket is outside of peripheral vision while you're plugged. Of course always do what works for you. Imo this is just something to think about while teaching someone. They may want to learn a module later in which you can't see the basket.

Most of the Hornet AAR tutorial I found said same thing.  Focus on the pylon and keep the basket in peripheral vision.  Which wouldn't apply to Harrier either as basket wouldn't even be in peripheral vision.  I think problem with those advices "for me" was if I focus on the pylon and basket in peripheral vision, there's nothing to indicate my own movement other than cockpit frame in my peripheral vision which wasn't accurate enough feedback.  So I tried the reverse.  I keep my focus on the FPM and the tanker in the peripheral vision.  Basket would also be in focus as it'd be right next to FPM.  I didn't mean I don't look at the tanker at all.  I mean, it's actually harder to not see it.  I keep it in my peripheral view especially after contact.

And I think it also depends on the equipment.  Depth perception I believe helps a lot in VR.  Better HOTAS helps of course.  Point was not to frustrate yourself with method that doesn't work for you and experiment to find one that does.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Taz1004

[Cathnan]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:25 PM, Taz1004 said:

Most of the Hornet AAR tutorial I found said same thing.  Focus on the pylon and keep the basket in peripheral vision.  Which wouldn't apply to Harrier either as basket wouldn't even be in peripheral vision.  I think problem with those advices "for me" was if I focus on the pylon and basket in peripheral vision, there's nothing to indicate my own movement other than cockpit frame in my peripheral vision which wasn't accurate enough feedback.  So I tried the reverse.  I keep my focus on the FPM and the tanker in the peripheral vision.  Basket would also be in focus as it'd be right next to FPM.  I didn't mean I don't look at the tanker at all.  I mean, it's actually harder to not see it.  I keep it in my peripheral view especially after contact.

And I think it also depends on the equipment.  Depth perception I believe helps a lot in VR.  Better HOTAS helps of course.  Point was not to frustrate yourself with method that doesn't work for you and experiment to find one that does.

 

I agree, definitley do what works for you. I also very recently did my first successfull plug in the tomcat, and focusing on the tanker was everything but easy. Because the KC135 isn't big enough. I often found it completely blocked by the by the cockpit frame. And that's the same as with the basket. Hard to base your movements on something you can't see. Ultimately I found a path the made focusing on the tanker work in the tomcat (adjusting curves helped here as well).

[Scaley]

The key reasons people are taught not to look at the basket are PIOs, as Swift has pointed out, but also the fact that once you are connected the basket isn't a reference since it's attached to your aircraft.  Thus if you use the basket as a contact reference you then have to move to a different reference set for the "stay connected" phase. Swapping from one reference to the other often messes people up.  The second point (or lack of) of why pilots using a boom refuel system don't get taught the same - the boom remains a useful reference both before and after contact, so can be usefully included in your scan.  

Learning a technique that has you using the basket as a reference is clearly possible, and can work well, but the advised technique is based on the "average" student.  

[TheCoyoteHunter]

One tip that helped me when learning to AAR is, never keep the throttle still, always move it back and forth. You will subconsciously learn how much time it takes for your input to actually happen. As you keep practicing you will subconsciously start making the proper thrust adjustments without even thinking about it. Wont matter if tanker is turning or not.

Edited November 16, 2021 by TheCoyoteHunter