Mysteries of the Auto pilot

[McVittees]

Has anyone managed to work out how to operate the auto pilot modes (hover and auto route)? In fact has anyone figured out you make the auto pilot point at the Shkval aim point? Without the auto hover holding position to use Vikhar and the cannon is quite...tricky (bearing in mind I don't even have any wind or turbulance in my missions!)

[Prophet]

I havent figured out the auto-route. I am sure it has to do with NAV modes and such which I havent got to yet.

 

I have got hover working, just remember to get your speed down before you kick it on.

 

Although I have manage the 'turn towards target'. Its on the panel above the collective to the right of your stick. There are the 4 targetting mode blue buttons in a square, its the upper left one. It seems you also need to have the heading autopilot on also.

[repent]

i tend to use only the pitch and bank auto pilot buttons, for flight, then once ive put it into a manual hover, turned where i want to face with rudder i activate the heading autopilot, from then on i use the "turn towards target" button to link it with the shkval.

[Vitesse2l]

The autopilot takes some getting used to.

 

I've found that I can only get a stable hover if I cancel any trim. I keep the joystick near-centred and make sure it does not move. With the shkval uncaged (and heading AP engaged), pressing Q will point you where it is looking. BTW I have found no problem engaging hover AP from cruise speed - probably not supposed to do it that way though.

 

If you engage route following from hover mode, the BS will go to the next waypoint (picking the wp up from the abris?). I havent figured out how to control speed in this mode yet.

 

I think I read that the heading AP will usually point you to the selected WP, so turning it off is probably a good idea if you need to deviate from the route.

 

It is good when the helo starts to do what you want.

[Outlawed]

Greetings all.This is my first post on here so i will try to make it a helpful one.Ok in order to use the Auto route feature you first need to put in what type of point you want to go to. There is 3 modes for this. Airport,Target and way point. Then when that is done you will need to put in which one with the numbers on the PVI panel. After that then you will engage your auto route and off you go...Happy rotoring...

[McVittees]

Well I think I found part of the problem - my Saitek x52 doesn't (as far as I can tell) know the difference between LEFT ALT and RIGHT ALT (or SHIFTs for that matter) and so even though Toggle Hover Mode was mapped, it wasn't engaging. Using the keyboard I can get it to work okay, but I think there must be some functional details about the conditions underwhich you engage auto hover that I am unaware of because it seems quite haphazard at the moment. Oh well, when we get the english manual I'm sure the details will be in there. :)

[Outlawed]

Yes that is a problem for us X-52 users...so for that i use game commander2 voice recognition program..."you must think in russian"hahaha...its a great program and is very helpful....

[baksie]

outlawed:

How well does game commander work in BS?

[Outlawed]

Like a charm...i have tried a few others but found GC2 works the best...there is a free one as well called VAC. i have tried voice buddy 3 and that one didn't work good.

[deltahawk2008]

Transitioning to the Hover is one area I am having a great deal of difficulty with. I normally aim for under 10 kph, alt constant, with autopilot on, hdg hold, pitch, bank on. Alt at least 100 m, 0 sink rate. The symbology appears. Yet I constantly drift away, gather, lose speed. No probs with maintaining alt with the collective. Any pointers..

 

Thanks

[ronht]

Here is what I've been able to figure out so far.

 

The autopilot has various levels of automation which consist of:

 

4 stabilization modes -

 

Pitch

Bank

Heading

Altitude

 

In addition to that the autopilot has 4 engagement modes -

 

Desired Heading/Altitude

Enroute waypoint following

Auto Hover

Auto target/shkval tracking

 

When you look at the autopilot panel on the right you will notice the blue buttons for each stabilization mode plus two toggle switches - The toggle on the left is for baro or radio altimeter reference which is used for the auto-hover mode and the toggle switch on the right is for the autopilot navigation, route or manual heading modes.

 

The autopilot can be engaged in various stages of automation and stabilization. First I leave the toggle on the left in the back position which is the radio altimeter reference for auto-hover. With most flying being done at low altitude in Black Shark, I believe that is the best reference to use for low altitude auto-hovering.

 

Pitch stabilization and bank stabilization should always be on when maneuvering, and heading stabilization should be used when in route or prior to engaging auto-hover. Remember if your nose is not pointed in the direction you want once you enter the hover, you can turn off the Heading stabilization button and slew the nose around to where you want it and re-engage Heading stabilization. If you don't do this, the nose of the helicopter will try and return to the heading where it was when you first engaged it.

 

The right toggle switch is the Nav mode. With this switch in the forward position, the auto pilot will track directly to the navigation, airport, or target waypoint that you have selected by the PVI (INS) panel, which is forward of the autopilot and data link panels.

 

The buttons on the left side of the PVI (INS) panel determine which type of waypoints, airports, or targets you have selected. As an example, the top left button on the PVI (INS) panel is the Nav button so if you press that along with button 3 the autopilot would track directly to waypoint 3 and bypass waypoint 1 and 2. As near as I can tell, there is no auto-switching to the next waypoint in this mode.

 

If you put the right toggle switch in the far back position, and you have selected a Nav waypoint on the INS panel, the autopilot will track the blue flight plan route that was loaded in the ABRIS and automatically switch waypoints on the PVI (INS) panel as you fly along. Both of these modes are annunciated in green on the overhead annunciator panel when engaged with an additional "Next Waypoint" notification annunciation just prior to reaching a waypoint.

 

If you put the right toggle switch in the center position and engage the auto pilot it will simply hold the heading that you were on when it was engaged. Additionally it will also hold your current altitude if the blue Altitude Hold button is pressed.

 

Finally, the target tracking/shkval mode is engaged with the auto-tracking button at the top left of the weapon mode panel located on the left side of the cockpit.

 

Having a good understanding of how to use the auto pilot in Black Shark is very important to getting the most enjoyment out of this simulation. For example with a conventional tail, rather than a tail rotor, having heading stabilization engaged when at high speed or when maneuvering is not required and actually hinders your precise control of the KA-50 as compared to when you are flying at very low speeds at near a hover.

 

The last thing you want to do is be fighting the autopilot when you need to be fighting opposing forces in the simulation.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ron

Edited November 18, 2008 by ronht

[deltahawk2008]

Top post! Thanks very much. Goes to demystifying the AP along way.

[Cosmo81]

thx ronht

[GGTharos]

You should, if possible, never disengage the three autopilot channels - unless there is an emergency (in short, if your INS malfunctions causing the autopilot to do wonky things).

 

If you disable them you are flying unrealistically (contrary to established flight procedure for this helicopter). There are other things you can do to maintain control.

[crazysundog]

Well I think I found part of the problem - my Saitek x52 doesn't (as far as I can tell) know the difference between LEFT ALT and RIGHT ALT (or SHIFTs for that matter) and so even though Toggle Hover Mode was mapped, it wasn't engaging. Using the keyboard I can get it to work okay, but I think there must be some functional details about the conditions underwhich you engage auto hover that I am unaware of because it seems quite haphazard at the moment. Oh well, when we get the english manual I'm sure the details will be in there. :)

 

 

 

I had the same problem [X52 user] here's what I did to solve it:

 

I went through my printed 'keymap' and highlighted every command I needed that had a Right Shift.

 

Then I changed the keycommand in Black Shark and replaced every Rshift I wanted with the Rwin. (or Apps key) note: I did not do every key-just the ones I wanted to bind to the stick!!

 

The SST software recognizes the Apps/Rwin key, this is the only change; I didnt find it necessary to remap the 'P' or whatever... kept the same keys otherwise; and I didnt run into any conflicts with other mappings!!

[Cosmo81]

You should, if possible, never disengage the three autopilot channels - unless there is an emergency (in short, if your INS malfunctions causing the autopilot to do wonky things).

 

If you disable them you are flying unrealistically (contrary to established flight procedure for this helicopter). There are other things you can do to maintain control.

 

I made a thread a few weeks back asking about the same question, but it got locked because we were not supposed to talk about it or something. Anyways, its good to know, I thought disabling them was supposed to be the way the thing really flys :P

[Mad Dog 7.62]

Good info ronht, thanks! A lot of good info is starting to come to light, the thread on increasing performance has some good tips in it to. Good community here!

MD

[crazysundog]

Well, I just tried flying without disabling the heading dampener like GG recommends...

 

I guess you have to hit the trimmer every time you change your heading? unless im missing something else...

 

gonna have to keep practicing before i ever show my face online!!

[Weta43]

You should, if possible, never disengage the three autopilot channels

 

I don't know which 3 of the 4 GG flies with engaged, but personally, I have the other 3 engaged mostly & course hold set to a handy button - engaged when flying place to place, or using the turn on target mode etc, but whenever I think I'm about to do some violent manouvering (sp?) or even just a lot of direction changing (unguided rockets/guns also), I disengage that channel till I'm done.

[GGTharos]

The correct thing to do is to engage the flight director, NOT disengage your AP channels.

[AlphaOneSix]

There is some confusion because of the name "autopilot". In adition to flying the aircraft for you, the autopilot also does a huge amount of work in stabilizing the aircraft when you are flying normally. On Western aircraft, this would be referred to as SAS (Stability Augmentation System) or SCAS (Stability and Control Augmentation System) and is responsible for making very minor adjustments so that the pilot doesn't have to do so much work controlling the aircraft.

 

To see an example, turn on all of the autopilot channels except for altitude, and start hovering (without using hover hold). Then, turn off all autopilot channels and see how much harder it gets to hover.

 

What GG is referring to is that in the "real thing" the Pitch, Bank, and Yaw channels of the autopilot should be engaged at all times unless something is broken with the autopilot. So in the game, you should always have those three channels engaged, even while you are doing the flying yourself, as these channels will help you stabilize the aircraft.

[crazysundog]

The correct thing to do is to engage the flight director, NOT disengage your AP channels.

 

 

 

 

ahhhhh, thanks for the info!!:pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

Also, if you need to quickly disengage the AP there's a switch that you hold down, IIRC - emergency AP disengage. Use THAT for emergencies, again, do not disable your AP channels. :)

[ronht]

There is some confusion because of the name "autopilot". In adition to flying the aircraft for you, the autopilot also does a huge amount of work in stabilizing the aircraft when you are flying normally. On Western aircraft, this would be referred to as SAS (Stability Augmentation System) or SCAS (Stability and Control Augmentation System) and is responsible for making very minor adjustments so that the pilot doesn't have to do so much work controlling the aircraft.

 

To see an example, turn on all of the autopilot channels except for altitude, and start hovering (without using hover hold). Then, turn off all autopilot channels and see how much harder it gets to hover.

 

What GG is referring to is that in the "real thing" the Pitch, Bank, and Yaw channels of the autopilot should be engaged at all times unless something is broken with the autopilot. So in the game, you should always have those three channels engaged, even while you are doing the flying yourself, as these channels will help you stabilize the aircraft.

 

OK - I don't disagree with any of this in the real aircraft, however, realize also that the level of stabilization on the real aircraft most probably has different levels of stabilization based on the speed or whatever which is typical for these types of systems. The KA-50 has an aircraft style tail rudder rather than a tail rotor - so as speed increases the level of effectiveness of the rudder would increase and reduce the need for autopilot yaw stability augmentation and the opposite would be true for slow flight.

 

Now, that being said, that is most probably where this simulation and the real aircraft diverge, because I'm not sure that level of detail has been implemented in the game. (No rant intended here so don't take this as my being unhappy in any way)

 

Now back to the game - I keep the autopilot pitch and bank modes engaged at all times and use the heading mode as needed (mostly for cruise and hovering) Using the autopilot in this way gives me the best feel, control and precision results in the game.

 

Hope this helps explain my earlier post.

 

Ron

[GGTharos]

The FM is 'as real as it gets', and if you're turning off heading stabilization you should be imagining your ground crew if not your commander giving you a really hard time and eventually banning you from flying if you continue doing it.

 

It is a bad habit. ;)

 

If you want to fly the Ka-50 sim as a SIMULATION of the Ka-50, do not disengage those channels. There are other methods to temporarily or more persistently remove autopilot influence and maintain stabilization.