Why won't my AI wingman refuel?

[Stearmandriver]

I'm unsure if this is Hornet specific or even if it's a bug vs my own error, so I'll try posting here to start. 

Anyone else having trouble getting an AI wingman to refuel, as of a few updates ago?  Early on when I started messing with the Hornet, I could reliably lead my wingman to a tanker and order him to "go to tanker" and he'd do it.  He was sometimes wobbly with some disconnects, but he'd get fuel. 

Recently though, they just won't seem to do it. Proximity to tanker does not seem to matter, nor does type of tanker (they don't like the KC-130 or S-3B).  I always get the same response: "Two, Unable" or "Two, Negative".  Followed sometime later by "Two, Ejecting" as he flames out on his way back to the boat lol. 

Something I'm missing? Anyone else having problems? 

[markturner1960]

Same here.....still dont understand why it is so difficult to write AI code that works properly? And why it is so difficult to improve it? There again, I am not a coder....Still, its a key part of a sim like this surely? 

[Tusky]

No problem here but before sending him to refuel, I contact the tanker. I've always done it this way though... 

[Stearmandriver]

I've tried contacting the tanker first, tried without contacting the tanker... he just won't refuel, even when we're joined on the tanker.  After he refuses and I tell him to RTB, I proceed to tank with no issues so it isn't a tanker problem. 

Only thing I can think of is that I'm often in a multiplayer mission even when playing single-player, because of the significant performance boost associated with running a Liberation mission in a separate server instance.  Could this be more of a multiplayer issue, like the AI inability to get hooked up to a cat on the supercarrier?  

[Buzzer1977]

12 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

I'm unsure if this is Hornet specific or even if it's a bug vs my own error, so I'll try posting here to start. 

Anyone else having trouble getting an AI wingman to refuel, as of a few updates ago?  Early on when I started messing with the Hornet, I could reliably lead my wingman to a tanker and order him to "go to tanker" and he'd do it.  He was sometimes wobbly with some disconnects, but he'd get fuel. 

Recently though, they just won't seem to do it. Proximity to tanker does not seem to matter, nor does type of tanker (they don't like the KC-130 or S-3B).  I always get the same response: "Two, Unable" or "Two, Negative".  Followed sometime later by "Two, Ejecting" as he flames out on his way back to the boat lol. 

Something I'm missing? Anyone else having problems? 

There is a bug when the tanker is following another aircraft. 

 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Also, AI seem to refuse to refuel as long as their onboard tanks are still at 100%, so they completely ignore the presence of external tanks:
If their external tanks are empty and their onboard tanks are at 99% or less, they'll refuel just fine. But if their external tanks still have some juice in them, they won't. Obviously annoying if you just want to top off before heading to a target area.

[pete_auau]

yep  have  make mission on  where   you  refuel  on  where  the  a1  and  your  self  actually  needs  to be  refuelled

[Stearmandriver]

I'm not quite sure what's meant by the bug if the tanker is "following" another aircraft?  The tanker is its own group, as planned by Liberation. 

Wingman is definitely low enough on fuel to need to tank, so it's for sure not an issue of the internal tank being full.  Have you ever seen AI conserve gas to that level? 

[maxTRX]

On 10/15/2021 at 12:32 PM, Stearmandriver said:

I've tried contacting the tanker first, tried without contacting the tanker... he just won't refuel, even when we're joined on the tanker.  After he refuses and I tell him to RTB, I proceed to tank with no issues so it isn't a tanker problem. 

Only thing I can think of is that I'm often in a multiplayer mission even when playing single-player, because of the significant performance boost associated with running a Liberation mission in a separate server instance.  Could this be more of a multiplayer issue, like the AI inability to get hooked up to a cat on the supercarrier?  

No issues in a SP mission (my own). I had my wingy flying left echelon on this leg of the route. Approached the tanker from starboard. It seemed like the wingy likes to plug in to the left basket, so I let him... I plugged in on the right side. It's been awhile since I refueled from the the right basket but I managed to stay just below the wake turbulence on my right and jet wash on my left.

https://youtu.be/hwdu56GvNO4

[Stearmandriver]

I haven't tried it in SP in a while, since this trick of running the mission in a separate server instance yeilds such better performance.  I'll try a short practice mission and if it's repeatable as a multiplayer bug I'll do the bug report.  Thanks for the sanity check guys. 

[Tippis]

Because, as anyone who have flown with AI wingmen will tell you: they absolutely shiver in anticipation at the opportunity to call “bingo” and immediately punch out — and no overbearing silly human will stand between them and their slow descent to the ground, dammit!

 

(But more seriously: just posting to have this show up in my sub list because any info on how to make this more reliable will be immensely helpful.)

[...]

En 15/10/2021 a las 13:23, Stearmandriver dijo:

I'm unsure if this is Hornet specific or even if it's a bug vs my own error, so I'll try posting here to start. 

Anyone else having trouble getting an AI wingman to refuel, as of a few updates ago?  Early on when I started messing with the Hornet, I could reliably lead my wingman to a tanker and order him to "go to tanker" and he'd do it.  He was sometimes wobbly with some disconnects, but he'd get fuel. 

Recently though, they just won't seem to do it. Proximity to tanker does not seem to matter, nor does type of tanker (they don't like the KC-130 or S-3B).  I always get the same response: "Two, Unable" or "Two, Negative".  Followed sometime later by "Two, Ejecting" as he flames out on his way back to the boat lol. 

Something I'm missing? Anyone else having problems? 

Refueling is not an isolated problem, the (AI) Hornet has other problems, such as stopping on the runway very quickly when landing, refusing to attack targets having weapons to accomplish the mission, etc. I share your argument 100%

[jross194]

FWIW, and this has been an issue for me for, well, years now..

Hornet and KC-130 are what I use in my missions most of the time and the AI will refuel, for me, under these conditions, though some are still fuzzy...

Complex Radio mode

Never tried it with more than 1 wingman (the issues make me not want to even go there).

When I call the tanker "Approaching for refuel" doesn't seem to matter - doesn't cause me any issues.

To speed the process; I tuck him in close formation as he makes what I'll call non-efficient approaches to the tanker, though it seems to be slightly better lately? So I "fly" him close to a spot behind the tanker. Then "Go to tanker" on him.

Internal fuel < some_value. External tanks seem to be ignored as mentioned above.

Note lately I've seen the Viper AI nuzzle up underneath the boom; boom moves to a point about a foot above the receptacle - then stops and nothing happens. This was before we'd burned fuel down below external levels. In the Hornet I've gotten the "unable" in this condition though...

I wrote a script to tell me what his fuel level is (all flight members) so I can track it and even set/change an independent "Bingo" call.

Throw a "Rejoin" when you think he's gotten enough and he'll unplug and rejoin. For when you're in a hurry. I can check his state with the previously mentioned script.

Hopefully this will get touched when they do other AI stuff. The endless and HIGHLY annoying multiple calls from #2 about ground target contacts - anywhere on the map it seems - still drives me crazy (so I change freq). May be a "Late Activation" thing? That's how my missions are but now I'll have to test this.

 

[Stearmandriver]

The late activation angle is interesting.

I almost 100% fly pretty complex Liberation missions now.  I always run the mission in multiplayer in a separate server instance, so I was thinking in terms of a multiplayer bug.

But, often times in a Liberation mission, your spawn time isn't at game start.  There's an option to override this and start player slots immediately anyway.  But when the mission first starts, you still get a message about your start being delayed for a couple seconds, then the spawn occurs. 

So I wonder if Lib is doing that via scripting, and as far as DCS is concerned, you ARE a late-activated unit? 

This may also play into a separate bug I have where my AI wingman is often ignored by the carrier crew and gets stuck short of the cat for the whole mission.