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How are callsigns used within a US Army Attack Helicopter Battalion/Company?

doedkoett

By doedkoett
in DCS: AH-64D

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doedkoett

doedkoett

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With the upcoming release of the Apache, my brain is already working on creating a campaign for my "squadron". I think we will be able to "deploy" 6-8 fully crewed Apaches, so that would make about one company. One thing that would add to the immersion, I think, is the correct use of callsigns within the unit and within the battalion. So I simply wonder how callsigns are used. 

Are the callsigns specific to a unit - would B coy in XYZ Bn always have a certain callsign? Is it derived from the name of the company (ie: The company calls themselves "Dragons", and the callsigns are always "Dragon-XY", or are the callsigns assigned for each mission, like "Today, we are Carcrash-ZX, tomorrow we´re Trashbin-YX"?

What does the numbers represent? Do they represent airframe numbers, or are they hierarchical, like everybody in Alpha having 1X while Bravo company always being 2X?

Well, I guess you guys get the gist of what I am asking. I will probably have more questions later. There are some things in the "Apache battalion deployment handbook for dummies" that I don´t understand either... 😄

/Erik G

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Raptor9

Raptor9

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It depends on the operational control scheme of the battlespace. Generally, like you said, callsigns in the Army AH-64 units are based on Company/Troop callsign (or higher echelon depending on who you are talking to), with the number determined by position within the company/troop/unit.

On the other hand, if operating in the joint theater that is managed by an Air Tasking Order (ATO), the callsigns will be listed from that document, and are either assigned by mission set or tail number.

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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
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AlphaOneSix

AlphaOneSix

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Yes, generally speaking. In my experience in Afghanistan, aviation units used the callsign of their battalion/squadron rather than their individual company/troop callsigns, so that the customer could expect a more consistent callsign regardless of which company/troop was providing the support that day.

 

Edited to add: I *think* that they would use the numbers 1, 2, or 3 to represent which particular company was flying that day, and then 1, 2, 3, etc. to designate the aircraft in the flight. So "31" would be C company flight lead and "32" his wingman. If A company was flying that day it would be "11" and "12". I am not positive that this is the case, however.


Edited by AlphaOneSix
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kgillers3

kgillers3

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12 hours ago, doedkoett said:

So my fictional example company, Bravo Company "the Dragons" could have "Dragon 11" for 1st platoon lead, and "Dragon 12" as his wingman? And similarily, the A company "the Hobbits" would be "Hobbit 11" and so on?

Now granted it’s dependent on local sops there are dedicated call signs by position in example if you said this is dragon 6 it’s the commander. 1-1 and 1-2 will be flight 1 guns 1 and 2 respectively. Not necessarily referring to their duty’s or positions if that makes sense. 

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Raptor9

Raptor9

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2 hours ago, doedkoett said:

So "Dragon 6" would be the boss himself, not his helicopter - he could be sitting in "Dragon 1-1", am I understanding that right?

Yeah, but it is very dependant on the situation. For example, sometimes the aircrews will use the callsign of the pilot-in-command of that aircraft, which may not be the unit commander, even if he is on board. But if he wants to announce over the radio that the commander is speaking, he may say "This is Dragon 6, [message]", or even "This is Dragon 6 Actual, [message]" to announce that the person speaking is the commander himself and not being relayed through someone else manning a radio.

And generally, Army aircraft aren't given a convenient 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 callsign convention on an ATO, so the flight will just use the lead aircraft callsign (who is the one that usually talks to the supported ground unit), and then append a -2, -3 to the end to signify flight position. "This is Dragon 34 dash 2, in with rockets behind dash 1."

-Is the Apache unit operating in an Army-only operation or are they in a joint theater with the airspace being managed by a JAOC/CAOC?

-Are the callsigns directed to be numbered by tail number or by mission set?

-Is the Apache unit being employed as a maneuver element or CAS TTP's? (US Army AH-64's aren't CAS platforms, they are maneuver elements like tanks and IFVs, but they can be employed using CAS TTP's, so Army aviators train to both)

-Is the operation a named operation with it's own SOI plan or is it a theater-generic mission set utilizing already established SOI/ATO callsigns? (SOI=Signal Operating Instructions.)

-What does the unit SOP say and how is that used within the questions above?

TL;DR - It greatly depends on the theater, command & signal plan, unit SOP, type of mission, and several other conventions that may determine what is used. But honestly, most DCS players won't know the difference or don't care. Ultimately, keep it it simple.


Edited by Raptor9
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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
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doedkoett

doedkoett

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7 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

TL;DR - It greatly depends on the theater, command & signal plan, unit SOP, type of mission, and several other conventions that may determine what is used. But honestly, most DCS players won't know the difference or don't care. Ultimately, keep it it simple.

Yeah, I will definitively need to keep it simple. While Apache pilots might be trained in various radio protocols, me and "my" guys are barely able to start up SRS! 😄 

Thanks for all the input!

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Zeagle

Zeagle

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Callsigns are assigned to flights. They don't just pick them themselves. For example, take the 93rd TFS MAKOS. Their approved callsigns include MAKO, SHARK, and AKULA. They usually append a number on the end of that to help differentiate callsigns in the ATC environment.  You might have MAKO11 flight of 4 and SHARK21 flight of 4.  The individual callsigns would be MAKO11, MAKO12, MAKO13, and MAKO14 and likewise for the SHARK flight. When joined-up they use the callsign of the lead aircraft. When they split up they use their individual callsign such as SHARK22 or SHARK23, etc. When a flight is joined up, only one aircraft talks to ATC.

Those numbers appended to the callsign have no relevance to any number physically on the plane. The Navy is a different in that they use the board number or MODEX for certain operations. I do not know how the Army does it. 

I am sure that an ATO would direct a squadron to use certain callsigns and flight numbers in order to cut down on confusion. 

Now, a JTAC or AWACS controller, or some other kind of commander onboard an aircraft will usually have a pre-briefed callsign that they will use. All players are usually aware of this callsign.  An AWACS controller might have a specific callsign to use independent of the callsign of the aircraft he is in.  

 

 


Edited by Zeagle
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kgillers3

kgillers3

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1 minute ago, doedkoett said:

So, hit us with your least hollywoodish callsigns you ever had, or seen/heard! It would be hillarious to give my players the callsign "Buttplug" and refer to it being in use in Kandahar in 2005 or something. Well, I guess I´d be more amused than them.

R (army copter) last 5 of aircraft tail. It’s what you use when talking to non combat atc. There are units that have agreements with the civil atcs but haven’t heard many personally but my scope is small

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Remco

Remco

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59 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

The funniest ROZ callsign I ever saw was 'Murica. It was even spelled that way with the apostrophe in the briefing.

Meanwhile the most patriotic callsign I've had is "Windmill"....


Edited by Remco
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