correct as-is Override modes by default blank out pages on SMS configured SMS

[Rongor]

I can't find a comment in the manual confirming this as correct.

While in one of the two Override modes, DMS right (assuming we have the FCR on the left MFD) is ignored, preventing switching between SMS and the HSD. DMS up, left and down are working normally. Switching pages on the non-FCR-MFD is still possible by navigating through the respective OSBs, yet naturally you won't be in the mood to hit some OSB when in a dogfight (override-situation), as we have HOTAS for stuff like this.

 

If you switch to HSD by OSB, navigating back to SMS won't show the INV as an option in the stores main page. You still can select it via OSB 4.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Rongor
edited the thread title so valued readers aren't restricted to think inside a box so much :p

[TEOMOOSE]

I'm using the overrides only and I haven't noticed a bug with what you have described.

Ill make some testing.

Notice when you are in one of the override modes, either aa or acm the hsd disappear.

The F16 has it's unique function which let's you save different pages on your mfd in different masters modes. When will get the mission planning addon for DTC that will let you do that including radio presets, cms profiles etc. So for now it's all manually inputted.

For example, I always make sure to go through between master modes and setup the pages I need for the mission. The HSD in all air to air modes, tgp, had, etc.

Hope this helps 

[Rongor]

It's nice that you can setup your MFDs for the override modes. Yet this has nothing to do with the problem I explained.

 

The problem's are:

- DMS is not working for the non-FCR MFD while in Override

- when switching to HSD using the OSBs on the non-FCR MFD while in Override, going back to SMS doesn't display INV under OSB 3, although pressing the OSB still opens the INV page.

These may be bugs and deserve attention.

[TEOMOOSE]

Yeah like I said I haven't noticed a problem with it, and I will make some testing.

9 hours ago, Rongor said:

It's nice that you can setup your MFDs for the override modes. Yet this has nothing to do with the problem I explained.

 

The problem's are:

- DMS is not working for the non-FCR MFD while in Override

- when switching to HSD using the OSBs on the non-FCR MFD while in Override, going back to SMS doesn't display INV under OSB 3, although pressing the OSB still opens the INV page.

These may be bugs and deserve attention.

Could you show a track or perhaps a video of this issue. I think it would be great to see it.

[TEOMOOSE]

Just to confirm, DMS left cycle between pages on the left MFD while DMS right does the same thing on the right MFD. DMS down make MFDs SOI left and or right. DMS up is HUD soi. When I'm flying in override modes,  these hotas functions do work for me.

Edited December 26, 2021 by TEOMOOSE

[Rongor]

1 hour ago, TEOMOOSE said:

Just to confirm, DMS left cycle between pages on the left MFD while DMS right does the same thing on the right MFD. DMS down make MFDs SOI left and or right. DMS up is HUD soi.

I can confirm this. It's even in the manual. You can read it up there.

 

DMS doesn't work on the non-FCR MFD while in any of the two override modes. This will regularly be the right MFD and in this case, DMS right.

 

DMSright.trk

Edited December 26, 2021 by Rongor
I like editing stuff

[Frederf]

DMS left/right cycles through your three shortcuts for MFD formats, not including blanks. If the current master mode only has one non-blank format then there's nothing to cycle through.

I take control of the track and demonstrate how the three sea shells work.

DMSright2.trk

[TEOMOOSE]

I have checked it myself, and they are working fine. When in override mode pages on the left MFD where you have the fcr by default, the other pages disappear, but you can put them back on with whatever you like. So I don't see anything unusual here.

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/289512-override-modes-inhibit-dms-page-cycle-smshsd/?do=findComment&comment=4853463

Edited December 27, 2021 by TEOMOOSE

[Chain_1]

All DMS directions work fine for me in all modes.  

[Rongor]

15 hours ago, Frederf said:

DMS left/right cycles through your three shortcuts for MFD formats, not including blanks. If the current master mode only has one non-blank format then there's nothing to cycle through.

I take control of the track and demonstrate how the three sea shells work.

DMSright2.trk 100.47 kB · 3 downloads

After switching to dogfight override, you used OSBs to switch right MFD pages which is necessary because DMS doesn't do the job anymore. You are basically demonstrating what I described multiple times now.

 

13 hours ago, Chain_1 said:

All DMS directions work fine for me in all modes.  

Well thanks so much for this vague comment.

 

14 hours ago, TEOMOOSE said:

I have checked it myself, and they are working fine. When in override mode pages on the left MFD where you have the fcr by default, the other pages disappear, but you can put them back on with whatever you like. So I don't see anything unusual here.

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/289512-override-modes-inhibit-dms-page-cycle-smshsd/?do=findComment&comment=4853463

Again, it's known we can put them back. I am questioning the fact that selecting an override mode by default blanks out all other page formats, so that DMS doesn't affect that MFD anymore. The manual mentions that MFD getting switched to the respective SMS page. No where it is stated that other pages OSBs get blanked and for what purpose the configuration of the SMS page includes blanking out the other pages (so you can't use DMS on this MFD anymore as single and only effect).

[Chain_1]

3 hours ago, Rongor said:

Well thanks so much for this vague comment.

You're welcome for answering your original claim of the DMS switch not working, as others did.  Download the DTC app here and then you can set up your mfd pages in advance.  That way you won't have to move the goalposts to make up for operator error.

[Frederf]

4 hours ago, Rongor said:

After switching to dogfight override, you used OSBs to switch right MFD pages which is necessary because DMS doesn't do the job anymore. You are basically demonstrating what I described multiple times now.

 

Again, it's known we can put them back. I am questioning the fact that selecting an override mode by default blanks out all other page formats... No where it is stated that other pages OSBs get blanked and for what purpose the configuration of the SMS page includes blanking out the other pages (so you can't use DMS on this MFD anymore as single and only effect).

When I am cycling through the presets I am using DMS right. It's true that I used the display program format to choose formats for the various slots and that's simply because if I didn't then I'd be cycling through only 1 thing which would be no cycling at all.

What you're not understanding is that all the master modes are entirely independent in their 6 slots selections for every master mode. The fact that the different master modes look similar in their six presets is an accident. There are good reasons why real pilots set up their slots more or less the same between master modes but the system itself could not give two craps if you put anything anywhere. Understand that any slot can hold any preset in any position in any master mode. It is complete Lego, Play Dough, Choose Your Own Adventure. The fact the FCR is typically put on the left MFD? Pure habit. Put the FCR in the #2 on the right MFD in AA mode and the #1 slot left MFD in NAV mode and #3 slot right MFD in AG mode. The world is your oyster.

In fact, do it in the mission planning room in the squadron building on the mission planning PC, load it onto the solid state memory device data cartridge (DTC), stuff it in your flight bag, walk out to the flight line, climb the ladder into the cockpit, put the DTC into the DTE slot, start the engine, switch to the DTE MFD format, press the LOAD ALL button and watch how everything you programmed into the memory device gets filled into the airplane. Your chaff and flare programs, waypoint positions, and all 30 presets.

Now, you may not like the initial configuration of the various master modes, but tough cookies. You don't like it? Change it. I don't particularly like the ED-supplied configuration either but until we get DTC so we can save our preferences and load them before flight we have to change the FM radio presets in the rental car manually every time we rent from Hertz Rent-a-Car.

Here's a track showing reconfiguring the main 5 master modes all 30 slots and changing between master modes showing how the six slots in each mode (and which is selected). This should demonstrate how malleable and independent the preset choices are.

===

As for SMS S-J, technically it is its own master mode. I said there were 30 presets (5 master modes, 6 slots each). That's a lie. There are actually 42 presets as S-J and E-J also have their own six configurable MFD presets. You can't set the S-J or E-J presets in the DTC preferences but you can reconfigure them manually in the cockpit. I'll attach a second track showing that you can configure those different from the other 5 modes as well. You can cycle through the 6 presets in S-J and E-J, but of course there have to be some presets there to cycle through.

F16 MFD in SJ EJ.trk F16 MFD reconfig and DMS.trk

Edited December 28, 2021 by Frederf

[Rongor]

It's nice you guys can explain how to adapt to the situation. If you had paid attention you would have seen I am not looking for workarounds.

I have no idea how many time you guys waste to cancel a thread.

The current default situation of the MFD configuration in both Override modes is a problem. It's possible ED simply didn't implement it yet in a reasonable way. Probably they didn't made their minds up what should still be selectable in the right MFD by default. We just don't know, until we can read it up in the manual.

What we do know is that you guys don't care for ED to review this.

Of course, ED keeping it as it is now would enable you to go on lecturing people how smart you can work around an issue like this. I understand that now.

[Frederf]

The default configuration isn't according to your preference, understandable. Except for the lack of DTC loadable preferences (a significant feature we all desire and anticipate) the airplane is otherwise performing identically to the real airplane in this regard.

[Chain_1]

32 minutes ago, Rongor said:

[Starts thread claiming DMS right doesn't work]

[Gets answers back showing that DMS right, in fact, works]

[Doesn't like answers; tries to change topic]

[Attacks those who were trying to help him]

Bruh.  

 

Edit: Frederf is correct: until we get the official DTC, the default is what it is.  In the meantime, you've been given multiple ways to adapt and overcome the situation.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Chain_1
added text

[Deano87]

Its working exactly as per the real aircraft. The issue you're running into is that the default screen setup for dogfight mode doesn't include pages that you're expecting. Nothing is being "blanked out".

DMS Right cannot cycle through pages as only one page is loaded into the preset on the right screen, by adding them back you're changing the preset.

It's simply just the default config. When I'm starting the jet one of the things I do while waiting for the alignment is setup AA, AG, MSL and Dogfight modes as I want depending on the mission.

[Rongor]

32 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

It's simply just the default config. When I'm starting the jet one of the things I do while waiting for the alignment is setup AA, AG, MSL and Dogfight modes as I want depending on the mission.

This.

And I reported it in this forum, so ED can save us the errand by adjusting the default config or tell us why they choose to leave it that way and eventually drop some lines about this in the manual.

[Frederf]

A wish list thread requesting new defaults and a table in the manual of the defaults for each master mode is about the most that can be done. Most likely their defaults are from a pilot or other SME telling them that's how their squadron SOP requires they set their airplanes.

[iRocco]

Sorry for necro, but isn't there a way to manipulate it through the .lua and would it be realisitic to have the HSD on the right in the dogfight mode?

[Hobel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb iRocco:

Sorry for necro, but isn't there a way to manipulate it through the .lua and would it be realisitic to have the HSD on the right in the dogfight mode?

I think that should work where the Lua is I can not tell you unfortunately
generally i  use a tool for this "DTC"

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Hobel