Launch Override

[pauldy]

*in the context of PvE or single player

I know the Launch Override function exists since Flaming Cliffs 1.12b.. which enables the Flanker to Launch the R-27R/ERs & T/ETs without Launch Authorization cues

Is this something that functions or exists in the real Flankers? or is this more of a sim exploit?

for some reason, I feel like i'm kinda cheating when launching the ET in launch Override at BVR Ranges.. but then I do the same with the ER when the target I have locked in STT jams my radar.


 

[paco2002]

6 hours ago, pauldy said:

*in the context of PvE or single player

I know the Launch Override function exists since Flaming Cliffs 1.12b.. which enables the Flanker to Launch the R-27R/ERs & T/ETs without Launch Authorization cues

Is this something that functions or exists in the real Flankers? or is this more of a sim exploit?

for some reason, I feel like i'm kinda cheating when launching the ET in launch Override at BVR Ranges.. but then I do the same with the ER when the target I have locked in STT jams my radar.


 

I'm not an expert on the topic, but I guess it is real, since every system that is forbids you should have a button to disable it. For example, the F18 has the Paddle that overrides the G-Limiter, here I would say the have the autorization override in case the systems fails for some reason and doesn't let you shoot (IRL Wise).

Launching an ER while Jamming shouldn't be an issue, it should let you shoot since it launches on Home On Jam (HOJ)

[pauldy]

Guess that makes sense then.

Ironic with Launch Override, I find myself lobbing the ET first towards the closer bandit, then I fire my ER against the Trailing Bandit. Something like that. 

Perhaps when the clouds finally obscures Optical systems like IR, this might not work well i guess.

[Ironhand]

It's real.

It's controlled by the LAUNCH AUTHORIZED: AUTO-MANUAL ((ПP - Пуск Разрешен) АВТ-РУЧ) switch on the PVI-10PE2 (ПВИ-10ПЭ2) panel located on the top left-hand side of the instrument panel.  The position determines whether the SUO issues the RELEASE AUTHORIZED (ПP) instruction automatically based on data received from the SUV (AUTO) or is forced to do so (MANUAL). (The RELEASE AUTHORIZED (ПP) instruction for the internal cannon (ВПУ) is always issued irrespective of the switch position.)

[pauldy]

I see, thanks loads for that detailed explanation.

with Regards to the R-27T/ET in real life or documents, do they really require an IRST lock? or they can be launched using data provided by the radar or something?

[okopanja]

11 minutes ago, pauldy said:

with Regards to the R-27T/ET in real life or documents, do they really require an IRST lock? or they can be launched using data provided by the radar or something?

The basic tactics of using such missiles was to launch 2 with different seekers, to improve the PK.

From what I understand T/ET will be slaved to which ever sensor has lock on you. In current implementation without overriding the missile has to see the target itself. But in reality there is no reason why the same sensor could not pick a target at later time even after the launch.

Also regarding the clouds and EOS: I do have a feeling that already now the lock is more difficult if the target is in the cloud. When comparing the effectiveness of IR and optical sensors against obstructions such as smoke and fog, IR tends to be way more effective. I would expect the EOS to retain some of it abilities to track and lock through clouds to some degree.

 

[okopanja]

I did find some time ago the real paper on this (made by company which produces IR systems), sadly I can not find it anymore, but found this to illustrate:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Illustration-of-performance-of-visible-and-IR-sensors-on-a-foggy-afternoon-The-advantage_fig3_228634160

 

Also note that contrast between cloud and flying object with engine will be probably stronger than buildings...

[okopanja]

I found it:

https://www.flir.com/discover/rd-science/can-thermal-imaging-see-through-fog-and-rain/

See the table for detection range of 10 degree Celsius difference.

[pauldy]

21 hours ago, Ironhand said:

It's real.

It's controlled by the LAUNCH AUTHORIZED: AUTO-MANUAL ((ПP - Пуск Разрешен) АВТ-РУЧ) switch on the PVI-10PE2 (ПВИ-10ПЭ2) panel located on the top left-hand side of the instrument panel.

Is this the Override Switch?

[WarbossPetross]

1 час назад, pauldy сказал:

Is this the Override Switch?

Yep, that's the one. The switch to the left is master arm, the switch to the right is the A-A/A-G mode switch.

[Seaeagle]

4 hours ago, pauldy said:

I see, thanks loads for that detailed explanation.

with Regards to the R-27T/ET in real life or documents, do they really require an IRST lock? or they can be launched using data provided by the radar or something?

There is no post-launch control(datalink) of the missile if thats what you mean, so for proper employment the seekerhead needs to be cued to the target(which can be done by IRST, radar or helmet sight) and then acquire its own lock on it before being launched. 

When launch override is used, the seekerhead is looking dead ahead and will only be able to acquire something that passes into its FOV after launch, so its sort of a boresight employment with all the restrictions and low pk that entails.

 

 

 

 

 

[pauldy]

I see thanks again all^

I lock my target/s first with Radar then switch to Launch Override. Afterwards I select the ET and fire away...

Kinda like in one of Ironhand's older Flanker Tutorials years ago for Lock On 1.02 iirc 

Edited January 20, 2022 by pauldy

[WarbossPetross]

2 часа назад, pauldy сказал:

I see thanks again all^

I lock my target/s first with Radar then switch to Launch Override. Afterwards I select the ET and fire away...

Kinda like in one of Ironhand's older Flanker Tutorials years ago for Lock On 1.02 iirc 

 

That's good because it IS Lock On! FC3 modules are essentially Lock On versions ported to DCS engine in order to use the content created all the way back then. I personally started with ED at Lock On Flaming Cliffs 1, still got the disks for that and BS1

[draconus]

On 1/19/2022 at 1:32 PM, okopanja said:

Also regarding the clouds and EOS: I do have a feeling that already now the lock is more difficult if the target is in the cloud.

Such effect is not implemented yet. It might be harder just because you can't see the target.

  

On 1/20/2022 at 3:21 PM, WarbossPetross said:

That's good because it IS Lock On! FC3 modules are essentially Lock On versions ported to DCS engine in order to use the content created all the way back then. I personally started with ED at Lock On Flaming Cliffs 1, still got the disks for that and BS1

It might have a bit of its legacy but it's almost nothing left from LOMAC/FC2: new FMs, cockpits, 3D models, some systems added/changed and DCS World: missile/weapons FMs and guidance, AI, terrain and objects, etc.

[okopanja]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Such effect is not implemented yet. It might be harder just because you can't see the target.

Well, I think I will just go on and check. I fly mostly on mostly cloud covered server. However I will first need some time for the test since e.g. it appears the AI F-16 != Human AI F-16 as modeled internally by the game.