"Official" F-4E Livery Discussion

[Bremspropeller]

1 hour ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

We had the opportunity. we didn't because... I don't know. We didn't procure sparrows or any Sidewinders above the B-variant either, our F-4s were fully meant to be unguided bomb trucks.

I think that's mostly due to the fact the the jets were leased to fill the gap 'till F-111s came online. The Phantoms were then returned to the USAF.

Some Phantom voodoo-priest can probably provide a trace of all the serial-numbers involved. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those aircraft were MAP'ed to other customers after being upgraded during depot maintenance.

 

Edit: Wiki says most were upgraded to F-4G standard later. There you go.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[Aussie_Mantis]

9 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Some Phantom voodoo-priest can probably provide a trace of all the serial-numbers involved.

You called?

69-0304 to 69-0307, 69-7201-7220, except 7218 was never delivered and they gave us 7234 instead.

All Block 43 F-4Es, no TISEO, no slats, DMSQ Phantoms. That's what I remember off the top of my head.

Most were retrofitted into F-4G standard and the one we have in our museum is an F-4G that they handed over after much negotiation.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Aussie_Mantis

[LanceCriminal86]

2 hours ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

Yep, we didn't use Agile Eagle.

We had the opportunity. we didn't because... I don't know. We didn't procure sparrows or any Sidewinders above the B-variant either, our F-4s were fully meant to be unguided bomb trucks.

Oh, and- would skins that I add show up server-side? or would they be client only?

 

Client only, unless others have that skin installed, or the server does. It's currently a bit of a mess how they are handled.

35 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

I think that's mostly due to the fact the the jets were leased to fill the gap 'till F-111s came online. The Phantoms were then returned to the USAF.

Some Phantom voodoo-priest can probably provide a trace of all the serial-numbers involved. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those aircraft were MAP'ed to other customers after being upgraded during depot maintenance.

 

Edit: Wiki says most were upgraded to F-4G standard later. There you go.

 

There's actually a site that covers it:

https://www.angelfire.com/extreme/raafphantoms/index.htm

 

[Bremspropeller]

1 hour ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

You called?

69-0304 to 69-0307, 69-7201-7220, except 7218 was never delivered and they gave us 7234 instead.

All Block 43 F-4Es, no TISEO, no slats, DMSQ Phantoms. That's what I remember off the top of my head.

Most were retrofitted into F-4G standard and the one we have in our museum is an F-4G that they handed over after much negotiation.

Thread-winner!

 

 

[Mobius_11804]

That one? Pretty please?!

[lunahuman]

don't forget about korean "방위성금헌납기" paint. it's a very Unique paintjob that only 5(!) of korean F-4D has. "필승 편대"

background history for this: in 1968, ROKAF "Rent" 6 of F-4D's form USA. these F-4D's was supposed to be returnd to USA. but korea pays the "defense fund" to USA in 1975, December 12th. so 5 of the F-4D's became belong to ROKAF's.

these 5 F-4D's became "Aircraft of Donation of Defense Fund" AKA: "방위성금헌납기".

Edited January 4, 2023 by lunahuman

[Osiris3LACK]

Would really like to see one of these old F-4E Turkish Air Force liveries.

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Osiris3LACK

[Max Thunder]

Can some F4 expert explain which livery’s we saw in the 2023 and beyond trailer? Saw a German one but I thought they only had F4F in active duty with German markings. Also some F4Es with US markings for training in the US.

[LanceCriminal86]

6 minutes ago, Max Thunder said:

Can some F4 expert explain which livery’s we saw in the 2023 and beyond trailer? Saw a German one but I thought they only had F4F in active duty with German markings. Also some F4Es with US markings for training in the US.

There will be some export country skins but not dedicated export variants as far as systems/weapons.

[Max Thunder]

1 minute ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

There will be some export country skins but not dedicated export variants as far as systems/weapons.

So the German livery is fictional?

[Kalasnkova74]

1 minute ago, Max Thunder said:

So the German livery is fictional?

Yes and no. The colors are real, but the German F-4 variant and it’s avionics will not be modeled. 

[LanceCriminal86]

The actual German F-4Es that stayed in the US for training F-4F crews will definitely be in and they are historic. But the F-4F skins and most other foreign operator/export skins would be considered semi-historical because the plane underneath isn't 100% that export variant. But the skins will be as faithful as possible.

Unless everyone suddenly doesn't want any export skins at all provided...

[Bremspropeller]

The skin shown was a Norm90 scheme aircraft.

F-4E in US colours Holloman:

F-4F (?) in US colours in Holloman:

In Hill grey

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-Phantom-II/1448324/L

Norm81 tactical camo.

Original Norm62 camo for the Gearge AFB aircraft.

Yeah, Norm62 is really fugly.

[bucklehead]

USAF F-4E with the 526th out of Ramstein AB, Germany. 

[Volator]

19 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

The actual German F-4Es that stayed in the US for training F-4F crews will definitely be in and they are historic. But the F-4F skins and most other foreign operator/export skins would be considered semi-historical because the plane underneath isn't 100% that export variant. But the skins will be as faithful as possible.

Unless everyone suddenly doesn't want any export skins at all provided...

Yes, and in all fairness the F-4F is very close to the F-4E, especially external, main differences (internal) being the slightly dumbed down APQ-120 that doesn't have AIM-7 compatibility, and one internal fuel tank less (making the -F a little lighter and thus a little more agile than the -E at the cost of lower range on internal fuel). The -F is certainly much closer to the -E than a B/C/D/G/J/S model, so I think including German -F liveries is acceptable. But: @IronMike@Cobra847 If possible, please include pre-1990s liveries (Norm 72 and Norm 81), or at least make them black-nose Norm 90 and not the beige-nose Norm 90s, as the beige-nose Norm 90s were the APG-65/AIM-120 upgraded birds that are NOT really comparable to the F-4E that we'll supposedly be getting. Oh, and I think the red-orange flight suits and grey leather jackets for pre-1990s German liveries are a must

Edited January 5, 2023 by Volator
Wrong Norm numbers, more precise ICE definition

[Bremspropeller]

I think they're called Norm 72 (a variation of the earlier Norm 62 scheme) and Norm 81 - Norm 83 is the Tornado green wraparound scheme:

The black noses IIRC also were ICE upgrades, of which two sub-variants existed (actually three, but the first one was basicly a SLEP and the Norm 90 paint): LA and LV.

LA -"Luftangriff" (attack) retained the APG-120 and hence the black nose.

LV - "Luftverteidigung" (defense) had the APG-65 and hence the beige/ivorycoloured nose.

+1 on the Star Wars suits and the grey jacket

Edited January 5, 2023 by Bremspropeller

[Volator]

12 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

I think they're called Norm 72 (a variation of the earlier Norm 62 scheme) and Norm 81 - Norm 83 is the Tornado green wraparound scheme:

Yup, you are correct, good catch. Wrong information on the internet there, I now went back to literature to check.

Changed it in my upper post.

[trelos57]

Greek F-4E Phantoms 

 

SEA of different squadrons (notice the differences on roundel and flag)

(last two photos taken in Cyprus)

 

Gray camo

 

Aegean Blue

(last photo taken in Cyprus)

 

Aegean Ghost

Spoiler

Sum:

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by trelos57

[Volator]

43 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

The black noses IIRC also were ICE upgrades, of which two sub-variants existed (actually three, but the first one was basicly a SLEP and the Norm 90 paint): LA and LV.

LA -"Luftangriff" (attack) retained the APG-120 and hence the black nose.

The non-APG-65 aircraft were also ICE? I always thought the APG-65/AIM-120 combo was what made them ICE...

 

But again you are right, I checked the book again. Three stages of ICE, where only the air defense variant received stage 3 APG-65/AIM-120... you do now your stuff

But still, I think our HB F-4 shouldn't get a skin that actually represents an APG-65/AIM-120 aircraft... whole lot of different capabilities.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Volator

[Bremspropeller]

16 minutes ago, Volator said:

Yup, you are correct, good catch. Wrong information on the internet there, I now went back to literature to check.

No worries - there's a lot of different and often conflicting information on those schemes out there and it's hard to keep track.

12 minutes ago, Volator said:

The non-APG-65 aircraft were also ICE? I always thought the APG-65/AIM-120 combo was what made them ICE...

That's what I thought, too. But the ICE upgrade was done in three distinct stages and not all aircraft made the step from stage 2 to stage 3.

43 aircraft just made stage 2, 113 aircaft made it to stage 3.

Stage 1 was just a SLEP (service live extension programme) and the new paint. Step 2 introduced a bunch of stuff (like a new MIL-STD bus) but retained the -120 radar. Step 3 also introduced more stuff and included the -65Y radar. To go on an AMRAAM-spree, you'd need stage 3.

 

BTW: There was a different upgrade before ICE, which was 'Peace Rhine'. It came with a bunch of new toys, including Limas, the HPC "F-15" tank and new RWR hardware.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Bremspropeller

[Volator]

10 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

BTW: There was a different upgrade before ICE, which was 'Peace Rhine'. It came with a bunch of new toys, including Limas, the HPC "F-15" tank and new RWR hardware.

Yes, that one I know and am the most interested in. The phase when the F-4 became an AMRAAM slinger I lost interest in, that's why I never read up on the ICE thing.

I personally think that once we get a DMAS F-4E, that's gonna be reasonably close to an F-4F "Peace Rhine" variant (ignoring the ugly TISEO we might get with the DMAS variant).

Edited January 5, 2023 by Volator

[SgtPappy]

1 hour ago, Volator said:

ignoring the ugly TISEO we might get with the DMAS variant

 

Don't talk to my girl TISEO like that

[Peet Maverick]

Now we have some pics of Phantom.. so... When do we fly?

[Jaakov]

1 minute ago, Peet Maverick said:

Now we have some pics of Phantom.. so... When do we fly?

Q1 2024?

[Stackup]

2 hours ago, Jaakov said:

Q1 2024?

Oh come on, be optimistic here, they thought they could have it done in 2022 until they were delayed, I very much doubt they need another full year to be ready for release.