What is difference between free Su-25T and Su-25 modul?

[Littlefloor]

I apologize if I missed the forum category for this post. It seemed like a logical place.

I searched the forum and the internet for some explanation and the stated differences between the Su-25 model that comes for free in DCS World and the modules that are bought, under a very similar name, the Su-25.  If someone already gets a free Su-25, why he would then buy it again? I guess maybe the cockpit is "fuller" of life, more tactile, additional switches and levers ... but I'm also interested in whether their skins are compatible, interchangeable or is there some "handle" and there?
Thank you kindly for your reply.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Littlefloor

[ColonelAgile]

These are two models of the Su25, with different handling caracteristics, as well as different weapons. 

The one that is free is the Su25T, the second generation of the Su25, from the late 1990s, dedicated to anti-tank warfare. It has TV guided missiles. It mostly flies like a brick due to all the added weight (it is noticeably more bulky, as it is based on the 2-seats UB variant with the space for the second seat replaced by more fuel and avionics). It is mostly designed to fire laser-guided rockets/bombs, and TV-guided missiles from standoff range against tanks.

The one you can buy either solo or as part of Flamming Cliffs 3 is the "original" Su25A, from the early 1980. It is much more agile, much lighter, but lacks a lot of the modern avionics from the Su25T, and can't shoot laser or TV guided missiles. It is mostly a "old school" ground attack aircraft, designed to deliver bombs, unguided rockets and fire canon in close air support. 

Neither have clickable cockpits, in fact, they are very similar apart from the TV screen. 
And as for skins, they are not totally interchangeable, since the SU25T has a big "hump" on the back, being based on a two-seats version. 

Here you can see the difference between a SU25A and a SU25T.

Edited February 19, 2022 by ColonelAgile

[Northstar98]

15 hours ago, Littlefloor said:

I apologize if I missed the forum category for this post. It seemed like a logical place.

I searched the forum and the internet for some explanation and the stated differences between the Su-25 model that comes for free in DCS World and the modules that are bought, under a very similar name, the Su-25.  If someone already gets a free Su-25, why he would then buy it again? I guess maybe the cockpit is "fuller" of life, more tactile, additional switches and levers ... but I'm also interested in whether their skins are compatible, interchangeable or is there some "handle" and there?
Thank you kindly for your reply.

They're 2 different variants.

The free Su-25T is an improved, dedicated anti-tank version of the Su-25 (introduced ~mid 90s, but only had a limited production run of just 20 aircraft, and only operated by Russia). It's essentially a port of the LOMAC FC2 Su-25T (since upgraded with a new cockpit and possibly flight dynamics, 3D model is however still LOMAC FC2 quality).

The FC3 payware Su-25 is the baseline CAS variant of the aircraft (introduced ~early 80s, and is much more numerous, with way more operators), the cockpit is roughly the same quality, with no cockpit interaction (all done via the keyboard as with the Su-25T), and simplified systems modelling. Unlike the Su-25T however, it does have an improved 3D model.

The 2 aircraft handle a little differently (owing to the Su-25 being lighter and having less drag than the Su-25T), though I think the level of fidelity of their flight models is roughly the same.

Here are the primary differences between the Su-25 and the Su-25T:

• Su-25 only has a laser target designator in the nose (Klen-PS), the Su-25T on the other hand has the I-251 Shkval EO/TV system which includes a laser target designator (think of it kind of like a pseudo targetting pod, built into the nose of the aircraft, though with a much more limited total FOV).
• Su-25 only has the ASP-17 gunsight, the Su-25T has a full HUD, to the tune of the MiG-29/Su-27.
• Su-25T, in addition to all of the weapons/stores available to the Su-25, has additional stores available:
  • 9A1472 Vikhr-1 [AT-16 Scallion] laser beam-riding ATGMs (×16)
  • Kh-29T [AS-14 Kedge] TV/EO guided missile (×2)
  • KAB-500Kr TV/EO guided bomb (×2)
  • L-081 Fantasmagoria-B ESM/ELINT pod (detects, locates, and classifies RADARs, for ARM targetting)
  • (w/ L-081) Kh-25MP/MPU [AS-12 Kegler] ARM (×4)
  • (w/ L-081) Kh-58U [AS-11 Kilter] ARM (×2)
  • R-73 [AA-11 Archer] AAM (×2)
  • MPS-410 DECM pods (×2)
  • Mercury LLTV pod
• Su-25T has an IR jammer in the tail (though unsure of effectiveness, and DCS IR seekers are fairly low fidelity)
• Su-25T has its cannon relocated to under the fuselage instead of within it, meaning that the nose gear is now offset.

AFAIK it should maybe also have access to the KAB-500L LGB, as well as possibly the KAB-1500L-F LGB and KAB-1500Kr EO/TV guided bomb, but information is limited, so take with a mountain of salt.

As the 2 aircraft have significantly different 3D models, liveries aren't interchangeable.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is that you can free trial the Su-25 for 2 weeks, allowing you to directly compare them.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Northstar98

[Tippis]

Also, there is the notable difference that the Su-25 is a mass-produced aircraft that has seen action in just about every conflict in the last 40 years, whereas the 25T was a moribund and ultimately abandoned attempt at creating an upgrade path for the -25 but which was deemed far too complex and expensive to be worth rolling out properly.

The T saw some very limited combat testing before the whole thing was shelved, and even the second attempt at a similar concept (the -25TM) was abandoned because it just wasn't worth it. Ultimately, not even 1% of the airframes were updated before the whole thing was abandoned and they tried to create something more sensible.

So really, the reason why you'd buy FC3 (you should never buy any of the individual planes included in the pack) is because they want to play more realistic scenario with planes that actually existed in any relevant way rather than some experimental fantasy plane that for all intents and purposes didn't.

[Littlefloor]

Thank you very much... you provided a lot of useful informations. I believe that your kind, comprehensive and clear answers will help not only me, but also others who are just entering DCS World.

[WinterH]

I had put this together a couple of years ago to answer this same question, if anything, something visual in addition to the written info up here

[Callsign112]

@WinterH, really enjoyed the video thanks!

To the OP, I think you got some really good advice, and the video sums it up really well. Having both planes will give you better coverage of a wider range of mission types. But for anyone just starting out, the free Su-25T included in the download offers a great path to learning what DCS World has to offer.