JTAC, 1st attack run good, 2nd attack run TGP grey lasing not working?

[AngryViper.101]

Hallo fellow SIM pilots.

I need some advice.

I recently started creating simple single player missions to have a JTAC 'unit' Laser (Lase) a group of artillery for me.

on the first run in (using laser guided 500lb bombs) all works well, IP inbound etc. and then uncaging the TGP i can see that the JTAC unit takes over and TGP points directly at a target and all goes well - bomb released - i fly away and i can see them guide the bomb to the target, pretty cool!

 

now.. i return to engage the 2nd target, same story, IP INBOUND calls etc. 

but this time the laser guided bomb misses, and i can see that they are not lasing the target? what i am doing wrong

 

[CobaltUK]

I am puzzled how JTAC takes over your TGP position. Did not know that was a thing.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi 

if the second one is missing the JTAC can not be lasing, are you sure you had all of the correct calls for the second target? Sometimes not egressing far enough for the second pass can create problems. 

If possible a short track replay would be great. 

thanks

[Kilo]

16 minutes ago, CobaltUK said:

I am puzzled how JTAC takes over your TGP position. Did not know that was a thing.

Yup, you can make your TGP look for the JTAC's laser with the LSS function (which stands for, well, Laser Spot Search). Just make sure you have the right code entered.

[AngryViper.101]

30 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi 

if the second one is missing the JTAC can not be lasing, are you sure you had all of the correct calls for the second target? Sometimes not egressing far enough for the second pass can create problems. 

If possible a short track replay would be great. 

thanks

hi, ok i will try and egress further and try again and feedback.

i tried it twice (fired up same mission twice) and had the same result with second target not being lased by jtac (i reckon i egressed about 7nm)

Edited February 21, 2022 by warford

[BIGNEWY]

Seems to be working for me, 

for the second one I egress, then when ready call inbound again, ask for laser on, he will reply laser on, once you have the laser you reply spot, he will clear you hot. 

 

[rob10]

Also realize that JTAC lasing has a TIME LIMIT.  It will stop lasing 5 minutes after they call "laser on" (and won't tell you that they stopped).  You have to abort and restart the process to get them to lase again.  5 minutes seems like a long time, but it goes by pretty quickly.  Could be that you're getting your LSS track that's getting your TGP where it needs to be (and it will stay there), but the JTAC stops lasing by the time your bomb is dropping so it gets no guidance.

[AstonMartinDBS]

I'm sure, that we can help you, if you provide a trackfile of your unsuccessful run.

[AngryViper.101]

Hi, I tried again this evening and even the first attack run failed. the laser guided bomb was not guided in by JTAC, even though the TGP was apparently uncaged and could pick up the JTAC laser...

 

When they indicate an attack heading of say 90 to 160, does that mean that you MUST be coming in from that heading range? or else they will not be able to take over lasing your laser guided bomb?

[Frederf]

That could have an effect in theory but it's rarely the case in DCS unless it's very hilly terrain or an unfortunate obstacle. It's more likely that the bomb seeker never saw the laser due to an overshoot. A track or simply viewing the bomb's fall in F6 view can show a lot about the geometry.

[AngryViper.101]

Hi

Please find attached a track, sorry it is rather long takes you through my first successful run, but the the 2nd run is unsuccessful - the laser guided bomb is not being guided by JTAC laser?, even though the LSS box is caged and it is tracking the 2nd target that I assume has been selected / designated by the JTAC unit? 

 

but when i release the 2nd laser guided weapon they (JTAC) are not guiding the bomb, like they did in the first run?

 

what am i doing incorrect

JTAC TEST 20220223 - 2nd Run Failed.trk

[Sinclair_76]

On the top of my mind it can be 2 things.

1: You can be more accurate in you're CCRP drop. As in putting the flight path marker over the steering line. What may have happened in your case is that you're releasing outside the parameters of the GBU laser seeker. The release altitude is also pretty low I would up it to at least 10k above terrain in this case to gice yourself more room. 

2: The LRFD of the JTAC only works a limited amount of time. I would always co-designate to overcome JTAC ai logic. In this case the JTAC might have turned his laser off post release / pre impact.

 

[AstonMartinDBS]

20 hours ago, warford said:

Please find attached a track, sorry it is rather long takes you through my first successful run, but the the 2nd run is unsuccessful - the laser guided bomb is not being guided by JTAC laser?, even though the LSS box is caged and it is tracking the 2nd target that I assume has been selected / designated by the JTAC unit? 

I did two runs, each starting after the first GBU impact:

1. I took control as soon as JTAC cleared hot. I lined up the FPM with the steering line, but missed the 2nd target;
2. I took control right after the first impact, then I climbed up to > 10k, used LSS to locate the target, refined the TGP and did a point track (TMS FWD), lined the FPM up with steering line and managed to hit the 2nd target successful (see F-16C JTAC TEST 2nd Run worked.trk).

Maybe the underlined, additional steps have been responsible for the successful GBU delivery.

Edited February 24, 2022 by AstonMartinDBS

[AngryViper.101]

Thank you, i will take a look.

grrr last night i tried again and missed on first run, strange since LSS was boxed and pointing to the target and i also did the TMS FWD.

 

there must be something in my technique that is off - it could be the altitude this time i may have been to high up at 23k feet ...

[AngryViper.101]

Hallo, i think my issue has to do with the 5 minute time out?

Attached is a very long track ... of me trying hard to get the 2nd laser guided bomb to successfully hit a target, and guess what SUCCESS!

BUT, I had to check-out and restart the process as I could not get the laser LSS lock from JTAC, so i guess restarting the process and completing all the steps under five minutes did the trick?

So to summarize, and please correct me if i am wrong

1) make sure altitude is good 10k ft up 

2) make sure bomb fall line (horizontal) is lined up nicely with the flight path marker

3) check out and restart the process, especially if you are inexperienced (like me) and take very long to run in for 2nd attack...

JTAC TEST 20220224 - LONG RUN SUCCESS.trk

[AstonMartinDBS]

1 hour ago, warford said:

as I could not get the laser LSS lock from JTAC

The distance where you can pick up a laser designation with LSS is limited. You'll get best results below 12 NM, depending on altitude.

[AngryViper.101]

9 minutes ago, AstonMartinDBS said:

The distance where you can pick up a laser designation with LSS is limited. You'll get best results below 12 NM, depending on altitude.

aha, ok i will keep that in mind as well!

thank you, it can be frustrating - soo many variables to remember - BUT rewarding when that weapon hits home!

[rob10]

Not quite as easy in the F16 (there is a timer, but not as obvious as the F18), but in the F18 what I got into the habit of starting the timer as soon as I called LASER ON so I knew how much time I had if I had to go around for a second pass before release.