XBox Controller for TEDAC ... My experience

[Draken35]

I started back in October last year with a wireless generic Xbox controller and was able to put it to use when the Apache was released.. My first discovery was that the triggers are actually axis (really Microsoft???) . Another discovery was that the particular controller I got went to standby mode rather quickly and the quality of the button was actually lacking...

I tried to solve the issue of the triggers by using 2 programs:

VJoy:https://sourceforge.net/projects/vjoystick/

Lets you define virtual joysticks

and

Joystick Gremlin: http://whitemagic.github.io/JoystickGremlin/

which let you map axis to buttons

I was able to map both triggers to my controllers to 2 different buttons, just to discover that since both triggers in my controller shared the same axis, well I couldn't press then at the same time!

So to many issue with that cheap, wireless controller! To the trashcan it goes and  I went shopping for a new controller found this one:

Turtle Beach Recon:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B096GQBLM2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is wired (no going to standby issue), each trigger has its own axis (both can be mapped as buttons, with vJoy and Joystick Gremlin, and pressed simultaneously! ), and has two additional buttons in the back that can be remapped to any of the actions buttons. I choose to remap them to 2 of the diagonal directions of the hat (since they are really hard to use in the hat anyway). That gives me a total of 2 axes and  20 usable buttons  

So far so good.

Hope this help somebody going this route... 

 

Edit to add:

Joystick Gremlin maps the axis to button based on the value of the axis. I've mapped mine to generate the button press when the axis value is between 95% and 100% coming from "bellow" ( a values less than 95%). Technically, another button can be mapped at a lower axis value, say 60%to70% coming from bellow and this will allow to map the 2 stages of the trigger... I might try it but my concern is the lack of tactile feed back of that first stage.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Draken35

[Floyd1212]

This matches my experience with a controller as well.

I got lucky in that the controller I purchased maps the triggers to separate axis, but I do think Joystick Gremln has options for "merging axis" and "splitting axis" which can probably overcome this anyway.

I am not needing vJoy for my setup as I have mapped the trigger functions on the controller to emulate a keyboard press in Joystick Gremlin, then I setup binds in DCS for those keys on the keyboard to do my lase and weapon triggers in game.  What are you using vJoy for in your configuration?

I also have the added paddles on the back of the controller, and was disappointed to find that they are not unique buttons that can be easily bound to additional functions in game. You can only program them in the controller itself to mimic other buttons on the controller.

But then I had the revelation that you did that I could use the diagonal presses I wasn't using on the D-Pad to remap these through to DCS.  My first attempt at this was using UL diagonal for one function and UR diagonal for another function, but if I accidentally pressed both paddles on the back at the same time, this would present as an Up press from the DPad controller, which was mapped to something completely different.  I resolved this by using the UL for my left paddle, and DR for the right paddle, so if I press them at the same time, they cancel each other and there is no command sent.

(On a side note, the triggers being analog axis does come in handy when playing other games, like using the left trigger for the brake pedal, and right trigger for gas pedal in a racing game.)

[Floyd1212]

I had also tried to get a 2-stage trigger function out of the axis remapping for the laser, but found there wasn't enough travel to make a distinction between the 1st and 2nd stages.  However, I just went back in and realized each trigger is using a full -1 to +1 range, with the at-rest position being at -1.  So when I tried it before I wasn't even using the first 50% of the axis.

By configuring stage one to activate between -.95 to 0 from below, and stage two to activate between +.95 to +1.0 from below I seem to be getting pretty good results.

[Draken35]

1 hour ago, Floyd1212 said:

  What are you using vJoy for in your configuration?

 

 

Instead of mapping the triggers to keyboard, I mapped then to joystick buttons which are defined in vJoys .. I didn't want to mess with keystrokes since the TEDAC triggers  do not have default keystrokes associated with them by default. But solution is definitely an option and I'll considered it as my backup if vJoy didn't work or gave me other issues.

 

1 hour ago, Floyd1212 said:

I also have the added paddles on the back of the controller, and was disappointed to find that they are not unique buttons that can be easily bound to additional functions in game. You can only program them in the controller itself to mimic other buttons on the controller.

But then I had the revelation that you did that I could use the diagonal presses I wasn't using on the D-Pad to remap these through to DCS.  My first attempt at this was using UL diagonal for one function and UR diagonal for another function, but if I accidentally pressed both paddles on the back at the same time, this would present as an Up press from the DPad controller, which was mapped to something completely different.  I resolved this by using the UL for my left paddle, and DR for the right paddle, so if I press them at the same time, they cancel each other and there is no command sent.

LOL, yes, my first attempt was using UR and UL as well , with the same results and solution... I have them mapped to LMC and Store for now... Of course, this is an evolving configuration...

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Draken35

[Draken35]

1 hour ago, Floyd1212 said:

 

By configuring stage one to activate between -.95 to 0 from below, and stage two to activate between +.95 to +1.0 from below I seem to be getting pretty good results.

It seems to me that Joystick Gremlin is not taking into account the direction and I cannot figure why... For the laser trigger it doesn't mater but for the weapons it does

[markturner1960]

Is there an easier way to do this? I have a wired Xbox one controller, been trying with joy to key without success to sort the triggers out (I think I need step by step guide) Also a bit confused by the lack of keybinds within DCS for the TEDAC triggers. How do you get around that? 
 

I have read that PS4 or 5 controllers don’t have triggers as axis, but these are not recognised in windows like the Xbox one version…….

I did install joystick gremlin, but can’t get it to work. 

[some1]

https://github.com/AntiMicro/antimicro/releases

No need to install anything else, run the exe, assign keyboard buttons to triggers (I used B and V keys), assign those keys to TEDAC in DCS,  done.

It handles the triggers on xbox controller as separate axes, so you can press both at the same time and it is properly recognised by DCS.

Edited March 27, 2022 by some1

[Draken35]

Antimicro does not recognize my xbox controller.  Unfortunately all the software we have been dealing with is old. Antimacro is from 2016 and vJoy and Joy Gremlin are from2019 iirc

[MAXsenna]

Great thread! Thanks for all the tips. Will need to check this out.  

Can't remember his handle, but there's a dude with a YT channel that focus on the Xbox controller in DCS. 

@Draken35 Why didn't you just plug the Xbox controller into your computer with a Micro USB? I don't even have batteries in mine. (it literally feeds on power! )

OT. I'm so happy it has axis, couldn't drive with the throttle PEDAL as a button in GTA!  

[Draken35]

49 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

 

@Draken35 Why didn't you just plug the Xbox controller into your computer with a Micro USB? I don't even have batteries in mine. (it literally feeds on power! )

 

I originally went wireless because I have a good supply of rechargeable batteries and didn't want to deal with another cable.. But after discovering the timeout issue with the wireless controller, I decided to get a wired one... Getting close to the point that I will need another or a bigger USB hub

I need to redo my wire management ....

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Draken35

[MAXsenna]

46 minutes ago, Draken35 said:

I originally went wireless because I have a good supply of rechargeable batteries and didn't want to deal with another cable.. But after discovering the timeout issue with the wireless controller, I decided to get a wired one... Getting close to the point that I will need another or a bigger USB hub

I need to redo my wire management ....

 

Ah, that makes sense. I'm between houses, so I'm not gonna bother fixing my cabling yet.

[some1]

3 hours ago, Draken35 said:

Antimicro does not recognize my xbox controller.  Unfortunately all the software we have been dealing with is old. Antimacro is from 2016 and vJoy and Joy Gremlin are from2019 iirc

That's weird. I have the latest Xbox series wireless controller and antimicro has no problems with handling the thing. It also detects all my joysticks including the most recent devices.

Ultimately, the joystick programming interfaces haven't changed for years, otherwise your brand new controllers wouldn't work in 10+ years old games.

 

In regards to wireless controller, mine turns off after ~10 minutes of inactivity, but I can turn it on again when needed and it is recognised again by DCS and antimicro. If you get annoyed by that, you can always plug the USB cable from the charger.

[Draken35]

Yes, it is weird... I tested Antimicro with my original wireless controller and it recognizes it but no the wired one...I wanted to rested to see if I could configure the triggers to have the two stages working as they should... Currently with Joystick gremlin, stage 1 is triggered twice, on the way towards stage 2 and then  in the return trip, despite the direction of travel condition... It doesn't matter for the laser, but for the weapon trigger matters!

Yes, it is weird... I tested Antimicro with my original wireless controller and it recognizes it but no the wired one...I wanted to rested to see if I could configure the triggers to have the two stages working as they should... Currently with Joystick gremlin, stage 1 is triggered twice, on the way towards stage 2 and then  in the return trip, despite the direction of travel condition... It doesn't matter for the laser, but for the weapon trigger matters!

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, Draken35 said:

Yes, it is weird... I tested Antimicro with my original wireless controller and it recognizes it but no the wired one...I wanted to rested to see if I could configure the triggers to have the two stages working as they should... Currently with Joystick gremlin, stage 1 is triggered twice, on the way towards stage 2 and then  in the return trip, despite the direction of travel condition... It doesn't matter for the laser, but for the weapon trigger matters!

Was gonna test the AntiMicro app, and found a link to the Github, where there was a link to the successor. AntiMicroX (lastest version 2 moths old or something. Maybe you'll have better with that one, unless you've already tried it of course. Found my Xbox controller.

Cheers!

https://github.com/AntiMicroX/antimicrox/releases/tag/3.2.2

 

[Draken35]

@MAXsenna Great find!

I think the old version only supports up to XBOX 360 controllers, mine is for XBOX ONE and AntimicroX does see my controller...

I'll play with it.

 

I've been googling for this kind of software for the last couple of days and this new version never came up!

Edited March 27, 2022 by Draken35

[some1]

8 minutes ago, Draken35 said:

@MAXsenna Great find!

I think the old version only supports up to XBOX 360 controllers

 

That's not true as I already stated in this topic.

For me the new AntimicroX can't reconnect to the wireless controller after it had been turned on/off, something with which the older version has no issues. Though if you use it with a cable that won't be a problem. 

[MAXsenna]

6 minutes ago, some1 said:

That's not true as I already stated in this topic.

For me the new AntimicroX can't reconnect to the wireless controller after it had been turned on/off, something with which the older version has no issues. Though if you use it with a cable that won't be a problem. 

Thanks! Nice to know!

18 minutes ago, Draken35 said:

@MAXsenna Great find!

I think the old version only supports up to XBOX 360 controllers, mine is for XBOX ONE and AntimicroX does see my controller...

I'll play with it.

 

I've been googling for this kind of software for the last couple of days and this new version never came up!

 

Haha! My skills as an IT Admin for the passed 25+years kicked in. I read you wrote it was old, so I just read the "About" to find the version, and there was this info.

 

Followed that link, and read some more, and went on the the successor page.

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by MAXsenna
Double screengrab

[jnr4817]

So this is a good solution  for newer Xbox controls?

[MAXsenna]

So this is a good solution  for newer Xbox controls?

Well, the software is free, so doesn't hurt to try. I'm testing it a little now.
Hard part is to know what to map, and what button is best for a modifier.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Sarge55]

I had an issue initially with DCS not seeing the settings in game.  Then I read the little tab at the bottom of the setup screen.  (See below.)

So I set Antimicro to run as administrator in properties and it works fine.  I'm using a Logitech controller.

Thanks for pointing out Antimicro Some1.

 

[Draken35]

Well, just flew a modified version of the Harrier's River crossing mission completely from the front seat, with the Turtle Beach Recon control, driven by the vJoy / Joystick Gremlin combination (right trigger set for the two stages and the left only for the second) ... Worked like a charm!

No issues whatsoever running those 2 software so very little motivation to try to figure out any of the antimicros....

 

This is my config:

 

and DCS:

 

[Frederf]

I'm using reWASD which has a nice feature that you can associate rumble events with bands on the trigger axes. I put a distinct rumble at first stage and second stage trigger so there is no ambiguity when I hit each.

[Draken35]

1 hour ago, Frederf said:

I'm using reWASD which has a nice feature that you can associate rumble events with bands on the trigger axes. I put a distinct rumble at first stage and second stage trigger so there is no ambiguity when I hit each.

Feedback on rhe stages,that is interesting... If you trigger the second stage and release the trigger, does the first stage triggers again

[Frederf]

In my case yes as the three zones are set to none, keyboard insert, keyboard home. This would cause the zone II to zone III transition to release insert and press home and then do the same process in reverse on the zone III to II transition. Potentially this causes the release to activate the first state lasing sequence. I also get the rumble feedback in both directions.

However now that you mention it I have edited the profile such that zone II holds insert and zone III holds insert+home both. This should cause the first stage to be held continuously across zones II and III. This should behave more like DCS expects and not produce a first stage laser event when releasing the trigger.

[Draken35]

Let me know that works out and post screenshots of the config, please.  I'll probably be testing it tonight or tomorrow...

I glanced at their site quickly and I see that they have different license types, which one do you use?