reported earlier Sometimes very underpowered

[Rhinozherous]

Hello!

Sometimes I am not able to takeoff because the Apache seems to be too weak... 8 Hellfires and HEDP Rockets loaded, full tank.

The track is from a mission generated via RotorOps, it is cold in this mission. But the same happened in missions where temp was 20° and std air pressure. I found that sometimes if I close the mission and start all over again the Apache performs way better.

I think the loadout is not overloaded? I need 130% torque and still unable to takeoff, build any altitude at all, falling back to ground.

Do I something wrong or is this a bug?

(Trackfile too big - 6,9 - uploaded to google drive) - Removed Link as it seems this is no bug!

Edited March 28, 2022 by Rhinozherous

[Raptor9]

It's not about how much collective you can pull, it's about your rotor RPMs. You will produce more lift at a lower collective blade pitch with your rotor RPMs at 101% than you will with a higher blade pitch at a lower rotor RPM. Watch your engine page. If the rotor RPMs start to droop lower, you're applying too much collective, even if the torque is less than 100%.

A pylon carrying 19x M229 rockets is actually heavier than one with 4x Hellfires, so if you want to go fully-loaded on a mission, you will need to reduce your fuel load. Even then, when operating at high altitudes and/or temps, you may need to take a lighter munitions load.

If you still have narrow power margins, try coming to a low hover a few feet off the ground, and then accelerate along the ground while remaining in ground effect, by the time you get above 30 knots your rotor system will become more efficient due to forward airspeed and you will be able to climb faster with less collective.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Raptor9

[Rhinozherous]

6 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

It's not about how much collective you can pull, it's about your rotor RPMs. You will produce more lift at a lower collective blade pitch with your rotor RPMs at 101% than you will with a higher blade pitch at a lower rotor RPM. Watch your engine page. If the rotor RPMs start to droop lower, you're applying too much collective, even if the torque is less than 100%.

A pylon carrying 19x M229 rockets is actually heavier than one with 4x Hellfires, so if you want to go fully-loaded on a mission, you will need to reduce your fuel load. Even then, when operating at high altitudes and/or temps, you may need to take a lighter munitions load.

If you still have narrow power margins, try coming to a low hover a few feet off the ground, and then accelerate along the ground while remaining in ground effect, by the time you get above 30 knots your rotor system will become more efficient due to forward airspeed and you will be able to climb faster with less collective.

 

Okay, so I should be more sensitive on the collective, watch the Eng page more and maybe reduce loadout. Thank you!

[BaD CrC]

Be mindful not only of your load but also the outside conditions like temperature and altitude of your take off point (DCS takes this into account). Heavy load, high temp and high altitude make it really hard for the rotor to push enough air and at some point, as you are pulling on the collective, the blades will generate so much drag and not enough lift that your rotor rpm will droop and leave you on the ground. Be also mindful of the direction of the wind. Hopefully we will get some performances charts in the final 64 manual to allow some calculations prior the flight.

Also, there is a performance page in the AH-64 display that is calculating the max admissible torque IGE and OGE. I don't know how accurate they are, but it's always a good idea to do a hover check and compare those values to your actual torque at 5 ft (IGE) and 80 ft (OGE) so you know you won't get into troubles.

Edited March 29, 2022 by BaD CrC

[Rhinozherous]

In the Rearm and Refueling menu the maximum weight should be changed then... With full fuel, rocket pods and hellfires I was waaay below the maximum. I dont have numbers at the moment but I remember being way below the max.

All in all the Apache has not that much power then it seems... this may be the reason why they upgraded the engines on the E version.

[Rhinozherous]

I found out that this is a bug! The mission I tried loaded per default 4 fueltanks... after rearming in mission it seems the weight is not changed internaly.

See this thread:

 

[Raptor9]

2 hours ago, Rhinozherous said:

In the Rearm and Refueling menu the maximum weight should be changed then... With full fuel, rocket pods and hellfires I was waaay below the maximum. I dont have numbers at the moment but I remember being way below the max.

The maximum weight number is the maximum gross weight the airframe is structurally rated for, not how much it can easily lift under different environmental conditions.

Performance planning is important for all aircraft, regardless of whether it is an airplane or helicopter, or something unique like the Harrier. Just because an A-10 can carry 16x 500 lb bombs, 6x Mavericks, full ammo and full fuel, doesn't mean it will be able to easily take off, climb rapidly or very high, or maneuver aggressively.

[Rhinozherous]

1 hour ago, Raptor9 said:

The maximum weight number is the maximum gross weight the airframe is structurally rated for, not how much it can easily lift under different environmental conditions.

Performance planning is important for all aircraft, regardless of whether it is an airplane or helicopter, or something unique like the Harrier. Just because an A-10 can carry 16x 500 lb bombs, 6x Mavericks, full ammo and full fuel, doesn't mean it will be able to easily take off, climb rapidly or very high, or maneuver aggressively.

Disregard, as I said in the post above yours - the problem I had has nothing to do with realistic performance or engine handling. I found a bug where the aircrafts weight is not updated after rearming - this was the reason why I thought the aircraft is underpowered.

I know that weights are important and should be planned ahead.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Rhinozherous

[BIGNEWY]

Fuel tank weight problem is reported and will be fixed. 

We also have some engine tweaks to come in future early access patches. 

I will mark this reported for now. 

thank you