reported earlier Multiplayer Hellfire issue

[SkipCarey]

Did MP with BSD yesterday jumped into CPG seat ...............the hellfires went wild even after lazing couldnt hit nothing tried eveything I know to get one to hit and nothing......................what i do in SP works very time,been racking my brain the only thing a  I can come up with is i may have hit the LMC button by accident (Ive deleted it in my CPG controls now) Anyone else have this issue?

[tech_op2000]

56 minutes ago, SkipCarey said:

Did MP with BSD yesterday jumped into CPG seat ...............the hellfires went wild even after lazing couldnt hit nothing tried eveything I know to get one to hit and nothing......................what i do in SP works very time,been racking my brain the only thing a  I can come up with is i may have hit the LMC button by accident (Ive deleted it in my CPG controls now) Anyone else have this issue?

First, what does BSD stand for?

If hellfires are missing their target, there are many different factors that could be at play:

There is major desync in this first release of the apache in multiplayer. The pilot is the host of the aircraft, so what the pilot sees is what is actually going to happen, not the CPG! For now, always have the pilot backup what the CPG is doing. Have the Pilot pull up TADS Video and observe what is happening. If the pilot doesn't see the laser is firing or doesn't see that the missile has a laser track, it isn't going to hit the target. If the pilot sees that the TADS isn't lined up with the target, the Hellfire will miss.

-Here are a few steps to take at the start of every flight:

1. pilot pull up WPN Page

2. Pilot set laser codes and missile channels, CPG confirm. 

3. CPG "weapon select switch" to missiles. 

4. Pilot select VID->TADS->TADS

5. pilot enable master arm, and ground override if doing this on the ground, CPG confirm same state of master arm

6. CPG cycle between RF and SAL mode on Missile page 1 or two times then set to SAL, CPG cycle WPN->UTIL->LASER multiple times, then set to On

7. CPG aim TADS at ground in front of the heli where the missile seeker could see laser. Fire laser, check for missile seeker track, Pilot confirm on TADS Video.

(If no laser or no missile track on Pilot Video, CPG cycle laser on UTIL and cycle RF/SAL. Cycle Laser Trigger. then retest)

Once you have established good missile tracking of CPG laser, you are now set to go engage targets.

-During engagement, Pilot should always check video to see if it is tracking what the CPG is doing, I have encountered these problems:
CPG enabled LMC and although he is on target, Pilot sees drift. (turn off LMC)
CPG fires laser, but PIlot does not see laser firing( recycle laser trigger)
Missile doesn't see laser( reselect code and missile channel)(sometimes cycle RF/SAL)
CPG sees deslaved TADS but Pilot sees Slaved TADS( cycle slave button, cycle ACQ source, have pilot take TADS as NVS sensor, This one I have had trouble clearing up, often the cpg and pilot just get stuck with opposite slave state)

-PIlot should check after missile is fired that he still sees laser is on. If not, command CPG to cycle laser trigger. Missile should reacquire the laser and track.

-Some  users have reported missiles spinning like crazy when they are spectated in F6 view. perhaps if the pilot is the one that spectates them. It seems from another bug I've seen that there are issues with the heli if the pilot is not in F1 cockpit view.

- I would suggest never using the default A code in multiplayer, 1688 is the default code for many aircraft and JTACs in missions. If someone else or an AI JTAC is on that code in the same area, who knows where those missiles might go.

Try the above tips out and let us know how it goes. Remember that much of that is to do with desync problems and will hopefully only need to be done temporarily until a patch fixes the desync. 
 

[NineLine]

BSD as in Blue Screen of Death? If so we need you log files or better yet the crash zip if it made one. We need much more info than what you gave. Thanks.

[tech_op2000]

That or apparently there is a helicopter server called BSD, Black Shark Den.

[SkipCarey]

Did MP with BSD yesterday jumped into CPG seat ...............the hellfires went wild even after lazing couldnt hit nothing tried eveything I know to get one to hit and nothing......................what i do in SP works very time,been racking my brain the only thing a  I can come up with is i may have hit the LMC button by accident (Ive deleted it in my CPG controls now) Anyone else have this issue?

[BaD CrC]

BSD stands for Black Shark Den guys. It's not an helicopter server, it's a squadron dedicated to DCS choppers only. It was in the latest ED newsletter guys (no excuse for you Nineline! ).

I am glad it seems to work for you tech-op2000 but for all the flights we have been doing testing and training on this chopper (I am talking about dozens of guys in MC flying every single day, including with several actual AH-64 pilots), the laser is bugged like hell in multicrew, and the use of LMC only makes it worse, with massive desync with the TADS view between front and back seat. An hellfire is ending up flying on a ballistic trajectory about 75% of the time whatever the firing mode selected. Some of our guys think they found some patterns to fix this like wasing on and off or cycling hellfire types or mods before firing, but for the moment, it sounds more like voodoo to me than actual technic. But I like some of your tips though. It seems like you also went through some real struggle with those hellfires and found your own magic tricks to make it work. Will suggest to check some of this stuff to the team. Thanks.

Note that I am not complaining at all here. It is an early release and DCS RW pilots have long learnt to be very patient. Time and ED team will solve all this.

 

[NineLine]

Well the point is it is a very incomplete report, we need all the info... the title alone leaves a lot to be desired. 

[tech_op2000]

1 hour ago, BaD CrC said:

But I like some of your tips though. It seems like you also went through some real struggle with those hellfires and found your own magic tricks to make it work.

I had my other PLT/CPG in discord stream his view. it quickly became apparent that almost all of the relevant settings needed to fire a hellfire had the potential to desync. Then it was just a matter of developing a method to detect each desync and a method to sync it back up while flying. My friends and I haven't found any surefire way to get around the weapon loadout desync in the air(just have to land and rearm) and no surefire way to get around the TADS slave desync. The rest were pretty easy to find a workaround for once we knew they were happening.

Edited March 29, 2022 by tech_op2000

[EvilBert VR]

Hey all.

So far I can really confirm the massive AGM desync issues when MP'ing. But for an unknown reason it seems to be the worst on the Caucasus map.

We did multiple testing sessions with own created missions as well as in missions on public MP servers. The problem seldomly occurred on the Syria map. Strangely without changing procedures or layouts it quattrodoubled on the Caucasus map.

One observed phenomenon was that when bringing up TADS view on the AFT LEFT screen the laser imaged shaked violently with the CPG reporting he had a steady and solid lase on the target. The AGMs were then watched in F6 view after rifle. In 99% the AGMs missed the targets by flying like meters behind them.

It was also observed that the impact was sometimes not visible in the AFT screen even tough it was a good effect.

Another MP issue: When rejoining a bird in flight as a CPG the WPN screen shows a full load of AGMs even when a whole bunch of Hellfees has allready been spent.

I can clearly deny mistakes or errors beeing made by the CPG in his setup for special reasons

Cheers

[BIGNEWY]

desync issues have been reported 

thanks

[Wolverinexyz]

I've found a few meanings for BSD too. Maybe it will work, I wanted to share.

• Black Shark Den
• Block Schematic Diagram
• Base Supply Department
• Building Systems Design
• Baoshan Airport

More BSD meanings

[SkipCarey]

damn good post techop ,I Got it to work today not sure but one thing is ACQ has to stay in FXD I was switchin to GHS also tedac needs to be in tads mode

10 hours ago, dburne said:

It is a fairly significant difference. Whether it is worth all that money to you is a very personal thing and hard to say.

And I agree with all that Supmua stated as well. I am very much loving mine and glad I got it when I did. I use it daily for a few hours a day.

Edit: Just got notice my lens inserts from VR Optician is shipping today on Fed Ex. That is really fast turn around time, just ordered on Saturday. Hopefully will be using them here soon now.

 

 

On 3/28/2022 at 4:46 PM, tech_op2000 said:

First, what does BSD stand for?

If hellfires are missing their target, there are many different factors that could be at play:

There is major desync in this first release of the apache in multiplayer. The pilot is the host of the aircraft, so what the pilot sees is what is actually going to happen, not the CPG! For now, always have the pilot backup what the CPG is doing. Have the Pilot pull up TADS Video and observe what is happening. If the pilot doesn't see the laser is firing or doesn't see that the missile has a laser track, it isn't going to hit the target. If the pilot sees that the TADS isn't lined up with the target, the Hellfire will miss.

-Here are a few steps to take at the start of every flight:

1. pilot pull up WPN Page

2. Pilot set laser codes and missile channels, CPG confirm. 

3. CPG "weapon select switch" to missiles. 

4. Pilot select VID->TADS->TADS

5. pilot enable master arm, and ground override if doing this on the ground, CPG confirm same state of master arm

6. CPG cycle between RF and SAL mode on Missile page 1 or two times then set to SAL, CPG cycle WPN->UTIL->LASER multiple times, then set to On

7. CPG aim TADS at ground in front of the heli where the missile seeker could see laser. Fire laser, check for missile seeker track, Pilot confirm on TADS Video.

(If no laser or no missile track on Pilot Video, CPG cycle laser on UTIL and cycle RF/SAL. Cycle Laser Trigger. then retest)

Once you have established good missile tracking of CPG laser, you are now set to go engage targets.

-During engagement, Pilot should always check video to see if it is tracking what the CPG is doing, I have encountered these problems:
CPG enabled LMC and although he is on target, Pilot sees drift. (turn off LMC)
CPG fires laser, but PIlot does not see laser firing( recycle laser trigger)
Missile doesn't see laser( reselect code and missile channel)(sometimes cycle RF/SAL)
CPG sees deslaved TADS but Pilot sees Slaved TADS( cycle slave button, cycle ACQ source, have pilot take TADS as NVS sensor, This one I have had trouble clearing up, often the cpg and pilot just get stuck with opposite slave state)

-PIlot should check after missile is fired that he still sees laser is on. If not, command CPG to cycle laser trigger. Missile should reacquire the laser and track.

-Some  users have reported missiles spinning like crazy when they are spectated in F6 view. perhaps if the pilot is the one that spectates them. It seems from another bug I've seen that there are issues with the heli if the pilot is not in F1 cockpit view.

- I would suggest never using the default A code in multiplayer, 1688 is the default code for many aircraft and JTACs in missions. If someone else or an AI JTAC is on that code in the same area, who knows where those missiles might go.

Try the above tips out and let us know how it goes. Remember that much of that is to do with desync problems and will hopefully only need to be done temporarily until a patch fixes the desync. 
 

 

[tech_op2000]

1 hour ago, SkipCarey said:

damn good post techop ,I Got it to work today not sure but one thing is ACQ has to stay in FXD I was switchin to GHS also tedac needs to be in tads mode

You are certainly correct about the TEDAC mode. If your sight select is set to Gunner sight, the laser wont work you must be set to TADS as Sight. Your Acquisition source should be fine being anything, just as long as the pilot isn't desynced into believing it is slaved when the CPG sees it as un-slaved.

I'm glad you got it working better!

Edited March 29, 2022 by tech_op2000