The F-35 Thread

[onehitxzibit]

The F-35 in my opinion is somewhat an overkill at the moment. Sure it has unmatched capabilities like superiour avionics and stealth, but do we really need them?

 

Why spend 160 million USD on something you don't actually need (especially considering the current economic instability)?

Edited January 18, 2012 by onehitxzibit

[hitman]

They are a partner. And do you think the US would sell them these two F-35s if they expect that Turkey won't buy more but instead is planning on starting a T-35 production line and manufacture 100 of these by themselves? Or that they'll pack one up and send it to China for instance :doh:

As far as I know the purchase of those 100 F-35 has just been delayed.

A financial partner businesswise, otherwise they dont have hands on the aircraft technology until their plane rolls off the assembly line. That is the point Im trying to get across. They order 100, but only pay for 2. It sounds suspicious to me, but that is only because we've already had a massive amount of our technology stolen from us this year (stealth heli from bin laden raid, Beast of Kandahar...), and it just wouldnt surprise me to see this technology up for bid on the black market either.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

II. Italy and Netherlands.

Italy has enormous debt of 120% of its GDP. And Netherlands ... Well it appears that Netherlander's average borrower has the largest debt of all in Europe (some 240% over average income, if I am not mistaken). This was a result of massive, unrealistic equity loans that were given to borrowers in Netherlands, people were buying cars with money from equity loans, they were spending money on luxury vacations and trips ...

 

Hmm ... I wonder were are Italy and Netherlands going to find the money to buy all of those F-35's?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The F-35 in my opinion is somewhat an overkill at the moment. Sure it has unmatched capabilities like superiour avionics and stealth, but do we really need them?

 

Why spend 160 million USD on something you don't actually need (especially considering the current economic instability)?

We do need F-35's as well as F-22's. However, we certainly do not need 2500 of the F-35's. Two hundred or so, of F-35's would do just fine for our defense.

[Groove]

F-35 May Miss Acceleration Goal

 

 

 

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120118/DEFREG02/301180013/F-35-May-Miss-Acceleration-Goal?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[Mikoyan89]

 

Hmm ... I wonder were are Italy and Netherlands going to find the money to buy all of those F-35's?

 

Talking about Italy ,probably there will be a reduction of units number to 80-90...in any case we need at least 20-30 units for the Harrier replacement. We already invested 2,5 billion of euros and it's a major program for the survival of the defense &aerospace industry.

[tflash]

Some better news: Pentagon to take F-35B jet off 'probation'-sources http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/01/19/lockheed-fighter-pentagon-idINDEE80I0KF20120119

[tflash]

Stunning pictures of F-35 night flight: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-f-35s-first-night-flight-prompts-the-pentagon-to-say-2012-1

[aaron886]

We do need F-35's as well as F-22's. However, we certainly do not need 2500 of the F-35's. Two hundred or so, of F-35's would do just fine for our defense.

 

I agree about 2500... but I think more than 200 would be appropriate. 500-800.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I agree about 2500... but I think more than 200 would be appropriate. 500-800.

Well, nowadays high fidelity simulators can do almost everything, except a G-force. So, build 100 F-35 simulators and you can have 1000 hours of F-35 flying every day! Have pilots to log 20 to 30 hours a year in a real F-35 and that's it.

 

Why should we spend a trillion of dollars, money that we don't have to begin with, on a weapon system that can be simulated with great success? Also, if F-35 is so good, why in the world do we need 2500 of them? It is more then obvious that we don't need that many of them for our defense, that's for sure.

[Cali]

Flight simulator won't sim what the pilot needs to do, they need the real stick time in the real jet. It's the same but different at the same time if you can understand that.

[GGTharos]

Hajduk is sort of right regardless. He has more or less the right idea and it is exactly what the F-22 guys were doing when their jets were grounded I figure. 20-30 hours a year though is pretty unrealistic, and actually bad for the plane. Just like you should run your car engine at least so often, you'd need to fly the jet at least so often if only for mechanical reasons - self lubrication etc.

 

And Cali is right about the stick time - again, 20-30 hours is too little ... you can reduce flying hours, but not that much.

[aaron886]

It's completely different. Even just the physical memory required to effectively tolerate and combat G. Not something pilots should be unfamiliar with when asked to perform outside of the training environment. Simulators cannot and will not for the foreseeable future replicate the complexity of real world operations.

[hitman]

Aircraft werent meant to sit. Wings would sag, landing gears would start collapsing, the fuel bladders would start to dry rot....etc etc.

[tflash]

But then again 200 of them would be insufficient by far, given the sheer size of the US and the fact that this will be your bread & butter machine. Not every airframe you have is available at every moment, some are undergoing maintenance, others upgrades. Look at how thin the F-22 force proves to be.

 

Aaron is more realistic with 500-800, I would think about 1200. Depending on how many pilots you have, your airframes can be longer in the air of course even with lower flight hours / pilot.

 

Anyway, with about 120 F-35 effectively delayed, we already know for sure that they will never buy the original figure. But that is nothing new.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Aaron is more realistic with 500-800, I would think about 1200. Depending on how many pilots you have, your airframes can be longer in the air of course even with lower flight hours / pilot.

Well, Russia has 0 (in words, zero!) 5th generation fighters, and I don't see anybody attacking Russia. China also don't have a single 5th generation aircraft. Brazil is as big as USA and don't have a single 5th generation airplane! India ... And all these countries have double, tipple and in case of China, multiple GDP growth compared to USA and EU.

 

USA and EU is making a big mistake by borrowing (read "print") money to buy weapon systems that are not needed. Unless the plans are to concur the world by military force ...

[GGTharos]

Keeping a generational lead in aircraft is how an air force stays ahead. It's not about who's attacking you right now, or might attack you in 5-10 years, it's about 'if someone were to attack and my air force isn't good enough, what do we do?'.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

... it's about 'if someone were to attack and my air force isn't good enough, what do we do?'.

Who is "someone"? If it is a country that attacks us, we turn it into a glass, in about 20 minutes! And for that we don't need 2500 F-35's, actually, we don't need even a single F-35.

 

If "someone" is a terrorist, or a terrorist organization, it can be successfully defeated with few F-35's in a portfolio of available tools to combat it.

 

There is no case, what so ever, for a rational military reason to have 2500 F-35's. There is a big push from a military/industrial complex to build 2500 F-35's, that's for sure. The problem is, we have to print money to buy 2500 F-35's, and that is much bigger threat for our national security that any terrorist or rogue country in the world.

 

Oh yes ....

 

SAM = Stealth STOP!

[GGTharos]

Who is "someone"? If it is a country that attacks us, we turn it into a glass, in about 20 minutes! And for that we don't need 2500 F-35's, actually, we don't need even a single F-35.

 

'A country that attacked us' one way or another, hasn't been turned into glass over the last half century - or ever, really. Having superior, conventional combat capability always has been and always will be very important, to all nuclear armed nations. They're all doing it. The arms race is far from over.

 

There is no case, what so ever, for a rational military reason to have 2500 F-35's. There is a big push from a military/industrial complex to build 2500 F-35's, that's for sure. The problem is, we have to print money to buy 2500 F-35's, and that is much bigger threat for our national security that any terrorist or rogue country in the world.

 

I'm sorry ... are you an air force general now? 2500 F-35's isn't 2500 F-35s 'right now'. It's 2500 over the span of 30 years, with old airframes getting replaced as time goes on. The active force will actually be much smaller.

[Cali]

GG is right, after being in the USAF for over 12 years and hearing numerous speaches....I agree with GG. You have to be prepared and ready for things that "could" happen in the future. Hajduk, what would happen to one of these countries that got attacked, would they be able to survive on their own or would they need help from others?

 

 

@tflash, don't worry about having pilots, we have enough of them. They don't fly as much as they would like to anyway.

[Groove]

You don't keep a military advantage because someone will attack you or you can attack somebody. It's enough for the others to know how powerful you are.

 

Hajduk, you might need some lessons in geostrategic policy ;)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

You don't keep a military advantage because someone will attack you or you can attack somebody. It's enough for the others to know how powerful you are.

That's right. And that's why nobody is attacking Russia, and Russia will not spend more then a trillion dollars on a 5th generation multirole fighter.

 

Hajduk, you might need some lessons in geostrategic policy ;)

Thanks for your friendly advise. May I suggest you take some civic lessons about the state of USA society. Just one fact, for you: about 46 000 000 people are receiving food stamps in USA. The highest number ever ...

[Cali]

I love how he talks about the US all the time but he lives in Texas :megalol:

[RIPTIDE]

Nonsense. You need 5,000 F-35's really. One can liberate twice as many countries with x2 F-35's.

[104th_Cobra]

Nonsense. You need 5,000 F-35's really. One can liberate twice as many countries with x2 F-35's.

Big dog policies, man! But the State budget will pay that.

What is the right way to spend the money? Hard decisions. :)