The F-35 Thread

[Jona33]

Libya.

 

 

That would imply WWIII but the Typhoon and Rafale have operated in Libya and Mali (Rafale only). The F-22 costs too much to operate in combat, in fact it costs too much to operate out of combat which is why the production run was cancelled despite it creating jobs in 44 separate states.

 

Although you make a point that the euro + rafale have seen combat I don't really regard a plane and a tank/ bloke with an AK as a "similar opponent". In addition the US haven't really had the perfect war for the F-22 yet, deploying them to Afghanistan wouldn't help there as I suspect it's poor at CAS and the USAF have other more capable planes for the job. Pretty much the same reason the eurofighter has not been deployed to Afghanistan (has the Rafale?). There's better planes for the job.

[Pilotasso]

What does she know about fighters anyway?? :lol:

[GGTharos]

No, it was shut down because of budget. It has more to do with economy vs. having a single-role 'superfighter' with no enemy than anything else. The F-22 has no budgetary issues in operation other than being kept under the microscope as the favorite target of some politicians.

 

It makes no sense to operate it anywhere where it would have to do A2G work when other aircraft can do that job better.

 

The F-22 costs too much to operate in combat, in fact it costs too much to operate out of combat which is why the production run was cancelled despite it creating jobs in 44 separate states.

[FanBoy2006.01]

In regard to the Rachel Maddow clip.

 

I have read official reports in response to these media claims. All the claims made by Rachel are either wrong or half truths.

 

In regard to the cost of F35. It will cost allot more to keep current fighters up to date with upgrades for future opponents (Although I will be sad to see them retired.).

 

As for F22 not taking part in operations in Afghanistan. I don't think the F-15 C did either. You don't need air-to-air over a gang of terrorists.

 

If F22 and F35 was such a joke, why are other big players also developing their own 5th gen fighters?

 

Apparently more countries than the original ones are interested in F35.

 

Rule of thumb don't trust politicians or the media.

[mikoyan]

The issue now is that other countries are developing stealth fighter at a faster pace because they didn't buy into the do it all jet. The Chinese got 2 stealth jets in the works that are made to fill an specific roll unlike the f-35.

 

The main problem confronted by the US is current needs vs projected treads. The current needs include economical ground support and transport for troops, but the projected treads include high tech stealth jets and sophisticated defense networks. So, how do you cover both with this world economy?

[Majinbot]

Here comes what? You're saying things that are simply not true with respect to the technology, money aside. And FYI, Eurofighter is about as expensive.

 

Have you seen a eurofighter in combat?

 

No for my country an f-35 is twice the cost of eurofighter, and is going to rise...The Typhoon performed very well during the recent Red Flag Alaska, the f-35 is very far from being ready. If many military experts say f-35 is a joke i believe them, I trust their words more than fanboys words...who always defend everything is from USA. The future unmanned aircrafts will be the real stealth fighters make the difference

[Pilotasso]

Great points ^^^^^

 

To me the F-35 has only one problem, it was touted as an affordable plane. It is anything but that. Worse, it leaves the US and allies without a lightweight fighter effectivelly creating fighter gap. This gap is not noticeable for those who aquired single type fleets of F-18's (or better) but it hurts everyone else.

 

Right now the only good replacement for an F-16 is another F-16. :S

 

The situation now is heading to what the US had back in 60's. The airforce was left with the F-4 because anyhting smaller just wasnt even considered.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Pilotasso

[FeoFUN]

The Rand Corporation has made a official statement that this is false.

1) It was report on F-35.

2) It's not looking false.

3) Mostly, IRL the lie is spreading through offical statements. Do you remember official statements about Iraqi WMD?

 

P.S. "Pentagon Wars" - is a great movie. But it's not about how Bradley is bad - it's about how any DoD and Defense Industry are worlking. And having many relatives and friends in RuAF and DI, i can say - this movie showed the Truth, in very funny manner. :)

Edited August 12, 2013 by FeoFUN

[GGTharos]

1) It was report on F-35.

2) It's not looking false.

 

It is false.

 

3) Mostly, IRL the lie is spreading through offical statements. Do you remember official statements about Iraqi WMD?

 

Yes, and thanks to Snowden's leaks it turns out they were correct.

[Teknetinium]

First time I see this video, must be old news for those who are into F35,

thought I might as well share it for those who missed it.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Teknetinium

[FeoFUN]

It is false.

It is true. As i said before - we can play this game all the day - you may believe whatever you want.

 

Yes, and thanks to Snowden's leaks it turns out they were correct.

BS

[TZeer]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighter_nao_analysis/

 

This means that we UK taxpayers will have shelled out no less than £215m for each of our 107 jets – that's $350m at today's rates, rather more than the US taxpayers have been made to pay for each of their 185 Raptor superfighters2, almost all of which will be used operationally. And the Raptor has third-generation Stealth: the Eurofighter has no stealth features at all. The Raptor has thrust vectoring for unbeatable manoeuvrability in a dogfight: the Eurofighter doesn't.

 

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/feature/146590/cassidian-hit-by-eurofighter,-eurohawk-controversies.html

 

Once the 750 million euro upgrade costs are deducted, Germany will have spent 13.75 billion euros to buy 108 aircraft. This works out to 127 million euros per aircraft, while, based on the 2.8 billion euro value of the June 17, 2009 contract signed by Germany for its 31 Tranche 3A aircraft, each should have cost no more than 90 million euros. The escalation rate is about 40% in four years.

 

 

I don't understand the hype about the Eurofighter.

 

 

Regarding the F-35: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-24030.html

 

* New cost estimates prepared by the Pentagon showed a drop in the projected average cost of the Air Force and Marine Corps variants over the life of the program, but the projected cost of the U.S. Navy variant for aircraft carriers edged higher.

 

* The Pentagon now forecasts that the conventional takeoff A-model will average a cost of $76.8 million per plane, excluding R&D costs, down which is $1.9 million less than the estimate provided last year. The B-model, which can take off and land like a helicopter, is slated to cost $103.6 million per plane.

 

* The latest estimate put the cost of the carrier variant at $88.7 million per plane, up $1.7 million from last year.

 

* The fifth and most recent batch of jets ordered by the Pentagon cost 4 percent less than the previous order, and prices should come down steadily in the future, according to Air Force Lieutenant General Christopher Bogdan, who runs the F-35 program for the Pentagon.

 

* Lockheed submitted a bid for the next two batches of jets in January and both sides hope to reach agreement this summer.

 

* The 22 Air Force models included in the last contracts cost $119 million each, according to Bogdan, compared to a price of $127 million per plane a year earlier.

 

* The cost of the three Marine Corps' B-models in the fifth order, which have a more complex engine to allow it to land like a helicopter, is estimated at $153 million per plane, down from $164 million a year ago, when the Pentagon bought 17 B-models, according to defense officials familiar with the estimates.

 

* The seven Navy carrier variants or C-models in the fifth batch cost around $139 million, down from $148 million a year earlier, according to estimates by U.S. defense officials.

[Exorcet]

Great points ^^^^^

 

To me the F-35 has only one problem, it was touted as an affordable plane. It is anything but that. Worse, it leaves the US and allies without a lightweight fighter effectivelly creating fighter gap. This gap is not noticeable for those who aquired single type fleets of F-18's (or better) but it hurts everyone else.

 

Right now the only good replacement for an F-16 is another F-16. :S

 

The situation now is heading to what the US had back in 60's. The airforce was left with the F-4 because anyhting smaller just wasnt even considered.

 

 

I still think the real problem is the F-35B. Added complexity, cost, and design considerations. JSF probably would have progressed much faster if the STOVL was its own program. And despite costs savings in merging multiple programs into one, the stand alone STOVL could have just been a simpler plane. Perhaps something slightly smaller and lighter with a larger wing sacrificing high speed performance a bit more than the A.

[vanveken]

[countto10]

I thought you could only do that with thrust vectoring?

[GGTharos]

No, you can do that with large enough control surfaces.

[Phantom88]

F-35C Flies 8-14-13 with Spin Recovery Chute

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/f35_news_item.html?item_id=1136

[countto10]

F-35B on USS Wasp

[FanBoy2006.01]

It is true. As i said before - we can play this game all the day - you may believe whatever you want.

 

 

BS

 

Here is the link about what the Rand Corporation published themselves:

 

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/09/25.html

 

“Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from the RAND Corporation were involved. Those reports are not accurate. RAND did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat. Neither the game nor the assessments by RAND in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft.”

 

So if the the guys that were supposed to have said it state that they didn't. Well...

 

**EDIT**

Edited August 19, 2013 by NineLine
Removed Political banter

[Namenlos Ein]

 

http://www.stopthef35.com/

[NineLine]

Might want to steer back on topic, this is no place for political banter....

[PFunk1606688187]

Is there any reason why the F-35 has the canopy bow that the F-16 and F-22 don't?

[GGTharos]

Wild guess: Probably allows you to make one part of the canopy thicker than the other part, thus saving some cost on making the canopy.

[Rangi]

https://www.f35.com/news/detail/marine-test-pilot-makes-first-f-35b-night-landing-at-sea

 

would not want to be that test pilot......

[Griffin]

Would give my nuts to be that test pilot.......