The F-35 Thread

[GGTharos]

It's on the 'astronomical' cost increase curve of fighters like all fighters before it. Not more, not less. Right on the money.

 

Well part of the hate is understandable, it does cost an Astronomical sum of money at a time when countries don't exactly bathe in cash. I don't want to derail this thread into politics, I am just arguing it is fair to hold the F-35 to a high standard when you are buying them for ~150mil $ a pop, plus I think it will effectively cost the taxpayer more.

[PLP]

It's on the 'astronomical' cost increase curve of fighters like all fighters before it. Not more, not less. Right on the money.

 

You are right, I meant astronomical in comparison to other state and even other military costs, making a gen. 5 fighter costs a lot of money.

 

That being said, and avoiding the Stealth and gen4.5 v. gen5 debate, I think the F-35 could have been significantly cheaper if they had scrapped the vertical take-off requirement. I personally think vertical takeoff is a useless gimmick, and it can be mostly replaced by the requirement of short takeoff on ill-prepared runways (like the Swedish and Russians do). Although I will gladly admit the concept is cool.

[aaron886]

Sea Harrier in the Falklands proved it was not a gimmick, I think. The problem is developing one aircraft for every service branch.

[PLP]

Sea Harrier in the Falklands proved it was not a gimmick, I think. The problem is developing one aircraft for every service branch.

 

Well it wasn't used then as it is planned for the F-35, what I mean is that the Harriers operated from an aircraft carrier, not from the mainland or assault ships. As I understand it the VStol requirement was slapped on the project by the Marines, who presumably want to operate the F-35 from their Helo boats/advanced bases instead of aircraft carriers.

 

I don't really see what you would lose by adding arresting wires to the Queen Elizabeth, or flying Marine F-35s from Navy carriers.

[aaron886]

Perhaps I should have said Harrier GR.3, then. They operated both shipboard and ashore.

[Itkovian]

I don't really see what you would lose by adding arresting wires to the Queen Elizabeth, or flying Marine F-35s from Navy carriers.

 

Well, for one thing, adding CATOBAR to a carrier is in fact a massive investment (the gear is massively complex and high maintenance), hence why the RN is avoiding it.

 

That said, I would agree that adding a VTOL version is responsible for a lot of problems with the F-35. How you can accomplish that on the same airframe is highly impressive (but I can only imagine the massive tradeoffs that necessitated).

[NRG-Vampire]

Bombs, bombs, bombs. Where are the air-to-ground missiles?:)

 

medium range a2a: amraam-c/d, meteor, derby, AAM-4

short range a2a: asraam, sidewinder-x, iris-t, magic, python-4/5, AAM-5

Edited January 19, 2015 by NRG-Vampire

[NineLine]

[AceRevo]

I belive in the F-35... Give it time before you'll jugde it.. Never have this many systems been put into one aircraft.... Thinking that production will go all the way to the finishline without any problems to solve, are ignorant thinking imo, With all the programming that gotta take place, Im sure glitches and bugs will happen (wink wink) and you cant just release a plane as if you could with a game beocuse here, life is at stake. And of course, sorting out any problems will take some time which again will of course cost more money....

 

I really think that this will be a killer machine!

 

Internally 2000lbs bombs with missiles, it sure can hit a punch while beeing stealth and where stealth aint that important it can make a even bigger punch! With the ability to defend itself if needed!

 

Also, those on the ground will see their CAS come in much faster then the Warthog... Where time is, well, death maybe? lol

 

Edit: 2x 2000lbs bombs internally

 

Edit: Only think I dont got too much hope for, are those touchscreens... Ive smashed several phones in a wall or the ground becouse of this lol

Edited January 22, 2015 by AceRevo

[ФрогФут]

medium range a2a: amraam-c/d, meteor, derby, AAM-4

short range a2a: asraam, sidewinder-x, iris-t, magic, python-4/5, AAM-5

Very interesting. Now I look at my original post:

Bombs, bombs, bombs. Where are the air-to-ground missiles?

[GGTharos]

I believe some validation is being done for cruise missiles, AFAIK. They'll happen.

 

Also I believe brimstone might end up being a part of the package, among other things.

 

Very interesting. Now I look at my original post:

[GGTharos]

If you fail at jamming it, you drag it and your friends throw the SDBs. There are tactics for everything. They just don't look like what we do in the game :)

 

And if you fail?

[ФрогФут]

If you fail at jamming it, you drag it and your friends throw the SDBs. There are tactics for everything. They just don't look like what we do in the game :)

There are no idiots on SAM. They also have tactics.

Also I believe brimstone might end up being a part of the package, among other things.

Fast and long range missile is always good to have. And F-35 doesn't seem to get any and will rely on slower, smaller missiles.

[NineLine]

There are no idiots on SAM. They also have tactics.

 

Fast and long range missile is always good to have. And F-35 doesn't seem to get any and will rely on slower, smaller missiles.

 

I could have sworn I saw an article on them looking at a new version of the AGM-88 with smaller fins to fit internally on the F-35, but for the life of me I cant find it... it might have been a discussion on the new JDRADM in development as well... either way I am sure it will get something at some point...

[GGTharos]

There are no idiots on SAM. They also have tactics.

 

I wasn't implying they're stupid, but the fact is that aircraft move - and quickly - SAMs generally do not.

 

Fast and long range missile is always good to have. And F-35 doesn't seem to get any and will rely on slower, smaller missiles.

 

Yes, that is true, but generally the only fast AGM available is the AGM-88. Brimstone is reasonably fast, but not very long-ranged.

 

One of the possibilities for fast AGMs still exists as an idea - a new AAM that doubles as an ARM. But that's not even on the drawing board, who knows if it will ever happen :)

[NRG-Vampire]

Very interesting. Now I look at my original post:

 

oops, sorry :doh:

i think the main A2G weapons will be the smaller GPS and laser guided, stealthy/low-RCS, glide bombs (instead of missiles) such as paveway-4, GBU-39/53 SDBs, AGM-154

but if you want missiles:

F-35 is a small aircraft so small/lightweight missiles needed as well: brimstone/hellfire, ALARM, APKWS Hyrda/Zuni, maybe the heavier AGM-158 or SCALP/Storm Shadow

but probably will carry all the weapons what an f-16/f-18 can carry too

Edited January 22, 2015 by NRG-Vampire

[Pepec9124]

Gotta love youtube comments:

 

[NineLine]

[Rotorhead]

Gotta love youtube comments:

 

As if you didn't know:

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

[ФрогФут]

I wasn't implying they're stupid, but the fact is that aircraft move - and quickly - SAMs generally do not.

They are either not eager to show: Guys! We're here! Right here!

F-35 is a small aircraft so small/lightweight missiles needed as well: brimstone/hellfire, ALARM, APKWS Hyrda/Zuni, maybe the heavier AGM-158 or SCALP/Storm Shadow

but probably will carry all the weapons what an f-16/f-18 can carry too

Most of which - externally.:)

[GGTharos]

This is no different from existing threats or past threats. The difference is that stealth gives you a big advantage in surviving it and even retaliating compared to past aircraft :)

 

You can toss an SDB as well as an AGM-88. True, maybe AGM-88 will get the guys to shut down right then and there. But that's what the WW's are for.

 

They are either not eager to show: Guys! We're here! Right here!

[NaCH]

 

 

don't know if what post but here is the video for that Weapon integration:

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2015 by NaCH

[NRG-Vampire]

They are either not eager to show: Guys! We're here! Right here!

 

Most of which - externally.:)

 

if you ask the only-internal A2G missiles (in the weapon bay on hardpoint 4 and 8 ) then i think F-35 could carry 2*AGM-158, 4 or 6*ALARM, and if they develop a rotary ejector then 2*3 + 2*3 brimstone/hellfire possible as well (maybe 16 missiles likewise, if there are sufficient space for them)

[mwd2]

F-35 Flyover Planned for Pro Bowl: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense-news/blog/intercepts/2015/01/23/f35-pro-bowl-2015/22220865/

 

we will see :music_whistling:

[Solty]

This type of discussion happened many times in the past. 109 that was suppose to be pushed aside by190. 190 was not trusted by many 109 aces. P47 crews that were tranitoned to P51 weren't happy. Some British officers thought that Spifire is too sporty for a fighter and were against it. F14 pilots were against F/A18. Etc.