Varjo Aero: Общее руководство для новых владельцев

[Ben Diss]

On 2/21/2023 at 3:36 PM, prancibald said:

Does anybody else get really bad stuttering when switching to the F10 map while using the aero?

I had that using a 4080. I switched to a 4090 and it's quick again. When I ran the 4080, if I turned down settings very low and F10 menu performed well again.

23 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I spent a few hours after updating today with my Aero and am extremely pleased! Previously i was locking fps to 45 with vync in VB, I disabled that and then saw my biggest gains. I was seeing some framerates hitting between 80-90 fps consistently. That along with Hyper Threading enabled in my bios made a world of difference. I was flying a campaign mission over Normandy that was particularly busy and very demanding, and got very good performance in it now.

I am one happy camper after this update. Running the Open Beta MT via Open XR along with Open XR Toolkit. I did not do any testing with Steam VR nor Steam VR's Open XR. Happy with what I have.

I'm surprised you found that hyperthread made a difference. I found that the new multithreading only used 8 cores. I tested with HT enabled and disabled and found no difference, so I disabled it. With HT disabled, I was able to increase my clock speed a few ticks. Seeing 90fps even in multiplayer now.

[Harlikwin]

23 minutes ago, dburne said:

You should run the Aero natively in Open XR whilst also utilizing the new Multi Threading executable. No need for Open Composite any longer, DCS Open Beta natively supports Open XR.

1st, you will need the wrapper supplied by @mbucchia to disable the quadviews the Aero defaults to. Follow the intructions on where to drop the files.

Then just create a shortcut to your DCS.exe in the bin-mt folder. Place this shortcut on your desktop. Amend the DCS Shortcut you just placed on desktop for the target line to read:  "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR

Note after subsequent updates to Varjo Base  the above will need to be repeated regarding disabling the quadviews.

Note replace D with your corresponding drive/directory. Note there is a space after .exe" before the two dashes. I won't be of any help regarding the reshade.

 

Yeah I was never able to get that to work.

I tried to get openXR to work like that originally and couldn't, the only that worked was open composite.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Harlikwin

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah I was never able to get that to work.

I tried to get openXR to work like that originally and couldn't, the only that worked was open composite.

 

No reason for it not to work - don't give up you can get it! Trust me if I can make it work, you sure can.

Edited March 11, 2023 by dburne

[Harlikwin]

23 minutes ago, dburne said:

No reason for it not to work - don't give up you can get it! Trust me if I can make it work, you sure can.

 

Yeah looks like I just need a day to try to get it working. 

[dburne]

11 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah looks like I just need a day to try to get it working. 

It should only take a few minutes...

[Supmua]

DCS MT seems much better than the ST version in complex missions and MP.  I longer see framerate drops in areas that typically causes CPU FT spikes (e.g.  Apache Mariana hot start, flying around the carrier full of planes on deck NW of the airport, Hornet supercarrier operations, etc.).  It doesn't really increase my max fps as I'm still mostly GPU bound with my setup, but the min fps goes up significantly, it feels like getting a brand new CPU that's 2-3 gen ahead. 

[Supmua]

Tried the F16 Syria Free flight, 90 fps smooth even when flying above the populated areas.  I'm testing with standard VR preset, Higher Varjo res setting but Steam 80% rendering (3228 horizontal pixels).  This is a definite improvement from before.

There seems to be discrepancies in frametime report between OXTRK and fpsVR, fpsVR reports higher FT in general (1-1.5 ms in CPU and 0.5 ms in GPU) so I'm not sure which one is more accurate but sticking with fpsVR my recorded GPU frametime from this mission is typically between 9-10 ms and CPU 4.5-5.5 ms).

Edited March 11, 2023 by Supmua

[YouBet]

16 hours ago, dburne said:

You should run the Aero natively in Open XR whilst also utilizing the new Multi Threading executable. No need for Open Composite any longer, DCS Open Beta natively supports Open XR.

1st, you will need the wrapper supplied by @mbucchia to disable the quadviews the Aero defaults to. Follow the intructions on where to drop the files.

Then just create a shortcut to your DCS.exe in the bin-mt folder. Place this shortcut on your desktop. Amend the DCS Shortcut you just placed on desktop for the target line to read:  "D:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_OpenXR

Note after subsequent updates to Varjo Base  the above will need to be repeated regarding disabling the quadviews.

Note replace D with your corresponding drive/directory. Note there is a space after .exe" before the two dashes. I won't be of any help regarding the reshade.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

The succinctness of this post, though, made this one the most helpful of all the responses -- thank you, dburne.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, YouBet said:

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

The succinctness of this post, though, made this one the most helpful of all the responses -- thank you, dburne.

You are most welcome, have fun!

[Supmua]

Ok it looks like DCS MT's default output is OpenXR instead of OpenVR.  Which means Varjo users no longer need to run command line to use OpenXR.  You can run the DCS app directly without any command lines or mods (except mbucchia's Quadview disable wrapper for Varjo OpenXR mode.  For Steam OpenXR no mod needed, just enable Steam as OpenXR runtime in SteamVR setting).  This is very nice, getting closer to plug and play.

 

It also seems OXRTK underestimated CPU frametime compared to fpsVR in my testing.  In F-16 Caucasus FF mission, my fps was in mid to high 80s from both OXRTK and fpsVR, and this was also confirmed by DCS's own fps tracker.  CPU FT reported by OXRTK was 7-8 ms while GPU FT was 9-10 ms, these numbers if true should give me >90 fps since both numbers are below 11 ms.  fpsVR on the other hand reported similar GPU FT but CPU FT was over 11 ms, which translates to final fps below 90 fps--hence appears better correlated.  Perhaps OXRTK CPU FT does not reflect the overall CPU FT but only within DCS app?

Edited March 11, 2023 by Supmua

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

Ok it looks like DCS MT's default output is OpenXR instead of OpenVR.  Which means Varjo users no longer need to run command line to use OpenXR.  You can run the DCS app directly without any command lines or mods (except mbucchia's Quadview disable wrapper for Varjo OpenXR mode.  For Steam OpenXR no mod needed, just enable Steam as OpenXR runtime in SteamVR setting).  This is very nice, getting closer to plug and play.

 

It also seems OXRTK underestimated CPU frametime compared to fpsVR in my testing.  In F-16 Caucasus FF mission, my fps was in mid to high 80s from both OXRTK and fpsVR, and this was also confirmed by DCS's own fps tracker.  CPU FT reported by OXRTK was 7-8 ms while GPU FT was 9-10 ms, these numbers if true should give me >90 fps since both numbers are below 11 ms.  fpsVR on the other hand reported similar GPU FT but CPU FT was over 11 ms, which translates to final fps below 90 fps--hence appears better correlated.  Perhaps OXRTK CPU FT does not reflect the overall CPU FT but only within DCS app?

 

Is it possible to force it to use openVR?

[dburne]

Having to use a Mod to disable quad view for Varjo Aero in DCS is ludicrous. I am very grateful to @mbucchia for providing this as I guess if not for that we would be screwed. Strange how this used to never be an issue but it sure is now. I do not know who that is on, most seem to think DCS, but someone needs to get this addressed!!

[Supmua]

57 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Is it possible to force it to use openVR?

For mt build currently no as it would freeze (at least on my setup), for the old st build yes.

5 minutes ago, dburne said:

Having to use a Mod to disable quad view for Varjo Aero in DCS is ludicrous. I am very grateful to @mbucchia for providing this as I guess if not for that we would be screwed. Strange how this used to never be an issue but it sure is now. I do not know who that is on, most seem to think DCS, but someone needs to get this addressed!!

Without the wrapper you would have to use Steam OpenXR to get stereo view, although the mt version has better performance in quad view now…but you’ll still see double cursor in the cockpit view which can be aggravating.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Supmua

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

Is it possible to force it to use openVR?

Certainly yes just uncheck Open XR in Varjo Base, it will revert back to Steam VR.

However ymmv, as @Supmua mentioned might cause issues with running MT. I personally have not tried it as I am pleased with Open XR running with MT.

 

8 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Without the wrapper you would have to use Steam OpenXR to get stereo view, although the mt version has better performance in quad view now but you’ll still see double cursor in the cockpit view which can be aggravating.

 

As I use Point Control on each index finger that would be out of the question. Only running MT version in Open XR now and going forward, unless DCS and/or Varjo find a way to screw even that up. This needs to be fixed so our Aero's have full native support in DCS.

Edited March 12, 2023 by dburne

[Harlikwin]

15 minutes ago, dburne said:

Certainly yes just uncheck Open XR in Varjo Base, it will revert back to Steam VR.

However ymmv, as @Supmua mentioned might cause issues with running MT. I personally have not tried it as I am pleased with Open XR running with MT.

 

As I use Point Control on each index finger that would be out of the question. Only running MT version in Open XR now and going forward, unless DCS and/or Varjo find a way to screw even that up. This needs to be fixed so our Aero's have full native support in DCS.

 

I did finally just get OpenXR working with the mbucchia wrapper... So woo hoo. I can at least fix the color saturation. Though I gotta say whatever reshade was using for sharpening is vastly better than whats in openXR.

[dburne]

Just now, Harlikwin said:

I did finally just get OpenXR working with the mbucchia wrapper... So woo hoo. I can at least fix the color saturation. Though I gotta say whatever reshade was using for sharpening is vastly better than whats in openXR.

 

Congrats!!

[mbucchia]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

Strange how this used to never be an issue but it sure is now

I thought this was always an issue with Varjo, even without OpenXR. This was the reason you had to use --force_steam_VR so that the game wouldn't use the Varjo mode instead (which also had this double cursor bug).

Am I misremembering?

[zildac]

2 hours ago, mbucchia said:

I thought this was always an issue with Varjo, even without OpenXR. This was the reason you had to use --force_steam_VR so that the game wouldn't use the Varjo mode instead (which also had this double cursor bug).

Am I misremembering?

I think you're correct. As I recall if you didn't pass --force_steam_vr and used native VB support you had the double cursor issue and it was laggy.

[dburne]

6 hours ago, mbucchia said:

I thought this was always an issue with Varjo, even without OpenXR. This was the reason you had to use --force_steam_VR so that the game wouldn't use the Varjo mode instead (which also had this double cursor bug).

Am I misremembering?

 

You may well be right I really am not sure.

[Supmua]

29 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

You may well be right I really am not sure.

Actually, when I first got the Aero which was around a year ago it wasn't like this.  There was no need for command line to run DCS as the default output was simply Steam OpenVR.  You just click on DCS app and SteamVR would start followed by DCS, and things would work normally (although people were complaining about geometric distortion which is no longer an issue).  It wasn't until the 1st or 2nd VB update that they started using Varjo openVR with quad view in mirror screen as a default output.  Now I'm hoping that OpenXR stays as the default output at least for the mt build because now you can run DCS without using shortcuts or command lines again.  From the consumer's perspective, this is the way to do it, keep it simple.

[etienne1968]

Hi gents,

Anyone please to outline his Varjo Aero settings to match latest DCS MT iteration. It's clearly confusing for newbies to understand how to set up adequately  V sync/motion smoothing combo  (fixed 45, 30 or automatic, enables if app supports it, etc..). Would appreciate as well if someone could post his DCS ingame system settings for a high end rig : I9 13900k + RTX 4090 + 64Gb RAM + SSD.  I'm pretty sure I miss something...

Many thanks in advance folks

[Supmua]

6 hours ago, etienne1968 said:

Hi gents,

Anyone please to outline his Varjo Aero settings to match latest DCS MT iteration. It's clearly confusing for newbies to understand how to set up adequately  V sync/motion smoothing combo  (fixed 45, 30 or automatic, enables if app supports it, etc..). Would appreciate as well if someone could post his DCS ingame system settings for a high end rig : I9 13900k + RTX 4090 + 64Gb RAM + SSD.  I'm pretty sure I miss something...

Many thanks in advance folks

Try this simple settings first.  Should give you 90 fps in simple single player missions.

1. Install mbucchia's quadview disable wrapper.  Releases · mbucchia/OpenXR-InstanceExtensionsWrapper (github.com)

2. Varjo Aero: Very High setting (37 PPD on VB), V Sync disabled, OpenVR on, OpenXR on.

3. DCS: choose VR preset.

When you're more comfortable you can start messing around with other settings in both VB and DCS.  I recommend high textures, waters, shadows, MSAA2x.  I haven't done a lot of testings with motion smoothing as it costs more performance and it might be more suitable for slower games such as MSFS.  If you fly slow aircrafts such as helos in DCS, motion smoothing is not really needed as there's barely any stuttering or tearing at low speed especially with OpenXR mode.

I do think that motion smoothing makes more sense now with multi-thread support.  So if you want to try it I would suggest Vsync Fixed 45 fps and Always enabled MS.  There should be minimal artifacts with MS with the latest VB update.

EDIT: I've gone through multiple training missions for Hornet, Viper, Apache using motion smoothing at fixed 45 fps (High DCS Preset without SSAO/SSLR to push the limit, plus +230 MHZ GPU OC and DOCP mode for my 5800X3D).  It seems to work really well with no performance drop below 45 fps and I quite like it (motion smoothing).  Haven't tried dogfighting/ACM yet but for that type of thing I'd probably prefer reduced graphics setting at constant or near 90 fps.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

Posting again to endorse Varjo's latest motion smoothing with the new DCS mt build after flying for hours and hours today  They're basically a perfect match.  So far I've had zero hitch with complex missions or maps that typically would cause stuttering/tearing with my setup.  There's some night lighting issue with the current DCS beta but it's not a deal breaker.  This is the best that I've seen from DCS VR since the era of the original HTC Vive/Oculus Rift CV1 both in how it looks and how smooth it runs (on a good CPU/GPU setup).  There's nothing out there right now that approaches the overall image fidelity of the Aero (maybe Pimax Crystal if that ever comes out), and when you add post processing via OXRTK, and smooth flying to that it turns into a near perfect VR flying experience.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Supmua

[dburne]

4 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Posting again to endorse Varjo's latest motion smoothing with the new DCS mt build after flying for hours and hours today  They're basically a perfect match.  So far I've had zero hitch with complex missions or maps that typically would cause stuttering/tearing with my setup.  There's some night lighting issue with the current DCS beta but it's not a deal breaker.  This is the best that I've seen from DCS VR since the era of the original HTC Vive/Oculus Rift CV1 both in how it looks and how smooth it runs (on a good CPU/GPU setup).  There's nothing out there right now that approaches the overall image fidelity of the Aero (maybe Pimax Crystal if that ever comes out), and when you add smooth flying to that it turns into a near perfect VR flying experience.

 

So far I have been extremely unimpressed with Varjo's Motion Smoothing. Don't think I have tried it running in DCS - MT yet, may have a look at it tomorrow. I am still quite amazed at the performance I am getting in DCS with my Aero now with the MT version.

Edited March 12, 2023 by dburne

[motoadve]

Just now, Supmua said:

Posting again to endorse Varjo's latest motion smoothing with the new DCS mt build after flying for hours and hours today  They're basically a perfect match.  So far I've had zero hitch with complex missions or maps that typically would cause stuttering/tearing with my setup.  There's some night lighting issue with the current DCS beta but it's not a deal breaker.  This is the best that I've seen from DCS VR since the era of the original HTC Vive/Oculus Rift CV1 both in how it looks and how smooth it runs (on a good CPU/GPU setup).  There's nothing out there right now that approaches the overall image fidelity of the Aero (maybe Pimax Crystal if that ever comes out), and when you add smooth flying to that it turns into a near perfect VR flying experience.

I only get this same experience as you when I do ground attack or sight seeing, super clear super smooth.

With WWII airplanes its harder because the fight its close to the enemy planes, so as soon as I am in a dogfight the other fighters look blurry when they are to the sides and almost in front, hope they can fix this, this is with a 4090 Locked at 45 with Motion Smoothing.