hannibal Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 with recent dcs news about doorgunner updates, only hoping that at minimum the hind doorgunner position will have 1 the UP/DOWN gun axis and LEFT/RIGHT gun axis will be assignable in the axis commands section of the mi24 gunner role 2 you can assign to joysticks, and mouse 3 dedicated multiplayer slot THE DOORGUNNER IMPLEMENTATION on the UH1H was just perfect LET IT BE THE SAME FOR HIND AND HIP! (and GAZ) find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 One thing makes me unsatisfied about it’s Mi-8 implementation, the bullets are weightless. You have what 450 12.7mm bullets in 9 boxes? Yet it only adds 139 kg which is gun + tripod + gunner. Along with the door open speed limit of 250 kmh having no consequence in DCS, I feel Iike you’re going to end up with everything taking door gunners since it only costs you 139 kg. Whereas it’s been said that in Afghanistan it was very rare, and something they only really did for CSAR and reconnaissance and other missions where they wouldn’t need to utilize the full speed and maneuverability of the Mi-24. Yeah I know, it shouldn’t matter to me how unrealistically other people fly, but it’s going to be sad to see 90% of 24s online have a door gunner, whereas in life it was a rare special occurrence that gave you much stricter limits. I also know a few people that along with the bullets not having any weight, would like to be able to modify the amount of ammo loaded. 3 Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 I'm just happy for any updates that the team puts in 4 find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 7 hours ago, hannibal said: I'm just happy for any updates that the team puts in Yes, I totally agree with you. It was a long way without any significant improvement (because of the Apache development) for many months and now we can see that some more stuff is out.... Let's hope that the whole Alexander team is fully dedicated to the Hind again...and who knows, maybe also on the Mi-8 . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcedVenom Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Hopefully this will help Mi-8 receive multicrew for its cockpit and gunner in the future 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fargo007 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 (edited) On 6/3/2022 at 3:29 PM, AeriaGloria said: One thing makes me unsatisfied about it’s Mi-8 implementation, the bullets are weightless. You have what 450 12.7mm bullets in 9 boxes? Yet it only adds 139 kg which is gun + tripod + gunner. Along with the door open speed limit of 250 kmh having no consequence in DCS, I feel Iike you’re going to end up with everything taking door gunners since it only costs you 139 kg. Whereas it’s been said that in Afghanistan it was very rare, and something they only really did for CSAR and reconnaissance and other missions where they wouldn’t need to utilize the full speed and maneuverability of the Mi-24. Yeah I know, it shouldn’t matter to me how unrealistically other people fly, but it’s going to be sad to see 90% of 24s online have a door gunner, whereas in life it was a rare special occurrence that gave you much stricter limits. I also know a few people that along with the bullets not having any weight, would like to be able to modify the amount of ammo loaded. It really isn't going to kill anything of consequence, so I figure that it sort of balances out. ETA - If you've got some source material on Mi-24 missions, ping me because I'd be interested to see that. Edited June 4, 2022 by fargo007 Have fun. Don't suck. Kill bad guys. https://discord.gg/blacksharkden/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongShanks Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 I was hoping they'd have the Afghanistan setup with one gunner but a gun on each side, so he switches guns depending on the threat. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratos Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 4 hours ago, TheLongShanks said: I was hoping they'd have the Afghanistan setup with one gunner but a gun on each side, so he switches guns depending on the threat. That's what I expected as well. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 18 hours ago, TheLongShanks said: I was hoping they'd have the Afghanistan setup with one gunner but a gun on each side, so he switches guns depending on the threat. Is that possible with the 12.7mm or was that only the case with the 7.62mm window guns? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongShanks Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Avimimus said: Is that possible with the 12.7mm or was that only the case with the 7.62mm window guns? To be honest I don't recall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sealpup Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 Looking at the size of the HMG, I seriously doubt there would be enough room for the gunner to have a full field of fire if both guns were mounted. The LMG's, on the other hand, there should be enough room not only for two guns, but two gunners! Assuming you're fine having more than one window-licker in the unarmored fighting compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Sealpup said: Looking at the size of the HMG, I seriously doubt there would be enough room for the gunner to have a full field of fire if both guns were mounted. The LMG's, on the other hand, there should be enough room not only for two guns, but two gunners! Assuming you're fine having more than one window-licker in the unarmored fighting compartment. There is footage of a mercenary operated Mi-24 with two gunners operating PK from the cabin. From what little I read in English sources it was more common for one gunner to operate two guns (or sometimes switch the gun's side while in flight... but that was considered hazardous). There might be some benefits from having the two PK 7.62 gunners in terms of suppression and observation. However, it sounds like we're only getting the more effective 12.7mm field modification. I'd personally like the PK as an option, but the MDB FAB-100 racks (apparently used in Afghanistan) or more rocket types would likely be more interesting expansions. Personally, my priority would be to improve the modelling of rocket fragments to get more realistic blast effects - aircraft like the Mi-24 and Mi-8 desperately need this, and it could be done with a small fraction of the resources required to give other aircraft FLIIR (for example). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 5 hours ago, Avimimus said: There is footage of a mercenary operated Mi-24 with two gunners operating PK from the cabin. From what little I read in English sources it was more common for one gunner to operate two guns (or sometimes switch the gun's side while in flight... but that was considered hazardous). There might be some benefits from having the two PK 7.62 gunners in terms of suppression and observation. However, it sounds like we're only getting the more effective 12.7mm field modification. I'd personally like the PK as an option, but the MDB FAB-100 racks (apparently used in Afghanistan) or more rocket types would likely be more interesting expansions. Personally, my priority would be to improve the modelling of rocket fragments to get more realistic blast effects - aircraft like the Mi-24 and Mi-8 desperately need this, and it could be done with a small fraction of the resources required to give other aircraft FLIIR (for example). Apparently in Afghanistan using PKT in the windows ran out of favor compared to using 12.7mm with door open. The FOV of the gunner is so small through the window to be very effective. So eventually I read that they either used 12.7mm with door open or nothing. Of course that doesn’t stop other operators, like the Neal Ellis video where you see both. But I believe that’s the reasoning to not model it, it fell out of favor by the Soviets and later Russia. But it would still be nice, to not always unrealistically have the doors open at 300 kmh 1 Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobakopes Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 In dcs 7.62 isn't effective so the devs use 12.7 installation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 18 hours ago, AeriaGloria said: Apparently in Afghanistan using PKT in the windows ran out of favor compared to using 12.7mm with door open. The FOV of the gunner is so small through the window to be very effective. So eventually I read that they either used 12.7mm with door open or nothing. Of course that doesn’t stop other operators, like the Neal Ellis video where you see both. But I believe that’s the reasoning to not model it, it fell out of favor by the Soviets and later Russia. But it would still be nice, to not always unrealistically have the doors open at 300 kmh Very interesting. Is your source English language? I could do with updating sources! There is also footage of an Mi-8 with an AGS-30 mounted in the door-gun position. 1 hour ago, Sobakopes said: In dcs 7.62 isn't effective so the devs use 12.7 installation Well, it is somewhat effective... but I can see why there would be a preference. P.S. I also wonder, with the limited range of movement for the window gun, whether the window-gunners would actually be that useful for spotting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Avimimus said: Very interesting. Is your source English language? I could do with updating sources! There is also footage of an Mi-8 with an AGS-30 mounted in the door-gun position. Well, it is somewhat effective... but I can see why there would be a preference. P.S. I also wonder, with the limited range of movement for the window gun, whether the window-gunners would actually be that useful for spotting. No it isn’t, and I have done a bad job saving the real life experiences of those in Afghanistan wether English or Russian. But I will see if I can find it Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 The gunner is already waiting for us in the game files and can be made to appear with some lua magic. Hopefully next update he's ready 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 57 minutes ago, Jun said: The gunner is already waiting for us in the game files and can be made to appear with some lua magic. Hopefully next update he's ready Funny that’s with the Mi-8 gunner model Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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