Longbow 2 Fans tried this sim out?

[SNACKY]

DCS:BS is better than LB2 except for one thing. It doesn't have an Apache!

 

 

 

yet

[Tango]

I thought air-to-air was achieved using the Shkval in Air mode and the gun or Vikhr???

 

Best regards,

Tango.

[rapid]

Well im just like you thinkr LB2 was the finest helo sim ever ( I used to check the internet for any updates on LB3.....but they never came). But Janes did not follow it up, so today i would say there is non better than the DCS:Black Shark helo sim there is nothing better out there. Its time to forget LB2 and embrace the new champ...........I have and many other LB2 lovers have also

[element1108]

Wasn't Wags (Matt Wagner) involved with Janes somehow? I thought I read somewhere that he was. I could be very wrong on this. I loved LB2, for the time it was an amazing helo sim. I loved being able to fly the BlackHawk and the Kiowa and their mission types.

 

I think the direction that DCS is taking their sim series is amazing. It has huge potential for a great war game playing ground. ka50's flying around shooting American armour, and A-10's buzzing the mountains hitting Russian armour.

 

All in a beautifully rendered 6DOF cockpit. In another 10 years the campaign will be fully dynamic with real players!

 

I was hoping for a sim like BS to come out ever since I flew Digital Integrations Apache...it came...i'm thinking ahead to the next level :)

[SunDown]

You wont be dissapointed. But you will get frustated. This flight model is scary, but rewarding after a couple hours of just flying. Then a couple hours of trying to maintain a route. Then a couple hours trying to land (where you wanted to land). Then a couple hours.....well you get the point.

 

Truely a great sim.

[viper3two]

absolutely THE best sim out there :thumbup: I have been flying sims for years and years and this is absolutely incredible.....very realistic!!! To put it in perspective, I bought the download version, printed out the manual myself and I will buy the boxed version and the printed manual both when they come out....very well worth it!

Edited December 26, 2008 by viper3two

[LIONPRIDE]

DUH !

 

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Why are we comparing a sim that was developed back in the early 90s to one developed over 10 years later? Of course it's better. I would hope so ... or the dev-team at DCS need their heads examined (and their skills).

 

This is all pointless. It's like comparing an 80s Lamborghini to the latest Bugatti Veyron. Both are great cars ... just one is the obvious winner.

 

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BLACK SHARK is a good game ... if you aint got it ... get it.

 

 

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Edited December 26, 2008 by LIONPRIDE

[arneh]

IIRC a hind pilot on the Russian forum said they experimented with this once and then gave it up.

 

 

See, now you made me go look it up :p

 

Quoting from Yefim Gordon's Mil Mi-24 Hind

In the late 1980s the Mil's OKB and the VVS began experimenting with R-60 (AA-8 Aphid) AAMs to give the Mi-24 air-to-air capability. The helicopters were retrofitted in service.

[...]During early tests tests the missiles were fired against flare bombs with considerable success. However, in mock combat with helicopters fitted with IR suppression exhaust mixers target acquisition range was no more than 600 m; it was even worse with piston-engined targets.

[...]Nevertheless, a few Hind squadrons, including some stationed in East Germany, had their helicopters equipped with AAMs.

 

MiG-29's did cessna interception just fine out of Cuba ...

 

Shooting them down I'm sure is fine. But the Soviets were primarily trying to force them to land, and then it's an advantage to be able to fly alongside. Fighters have a hard time flying that slowly.

[Quarrion]

Why are we comparing a sim that was developed back in the early 90s to one developed over 10 years later?

 

Because Longbow 2 is still the best all-round helicopter simulator to date. Black Shark excels at simulating the aircraft systems but lacks the gameplay and atmosphere of a dynamic campaign.

[LIONPRIDE]

Because Longbow 2 is still the best all-round helicopter simulator to date. Black Shark excels at simulating the aircraft systems but lacks the gameplay and atmosphere of a dynamic campaign.

 

 

Yes, for simulation purposes LBII was as close as we were ever going to get to the real thing. BUT eventually even that couldn't save it from it's dated graphics and inability to run on a new OS. again ... Of course BS is going to be better in many aspects.

 

As for a dynamic campaign ... I guess we can't have it all. I think EECH is actually a better all around package when you look at it. Dynamic campaign, decent graphics, and MOD's that'll get you realtively close to the button clicking you get from BS. Multiplayer was the only real crutch it had/has.

 

I cut my teeth on LBII and I would love to see a predesessor. BS might be it. Only because it was pretty painless to install on a new rig and has many of the same aspects.

 

 

 

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[Spartan1-1]

Well a lot also depends on if your talking flight sim or combat sim. Theres gonna be some compromise. Without a doubt DCS BS is the supreme rotary wing sim on the market, by far.

[blave]

I was a big LB2 fan back in the day, and lament the fact that's somewhere between hard and impossible to get it to run on modern hardware and operating systems.

 

That said, I have told more than a couple folks that BS makes LB2 look like an NES game.

 

My main beef with BS is that (from what I have read) it's a little unrealistic in the workload that it places on the pilot. I read "somewhere" (I wish I'd bookmarked it) that in RL, the Ka-50 pilot is handed targets that are found/acquired (and lased?) by other aircraft - none of this flying around trying to eyeball teeny pixel-sized bad guys...

 

Even though I have thus far totally ignored the radio and datalink systems, I find the workload to be almost too much to handle - e.g. flying while finding/locking/terminating targets. And that's with the target text turned on!

 

Still, I've spent more time with this title in the last two weeks than I have done with anything in a long time - too much time in fact!

 

In the end - it's a fantastically detailed simulation of an aircraft that has some interesting limitations (e.g. no night ops capability in this variant). I look forward to the A-10C and especially AH-64 products - if the latter gives "two multiplayer guys in the same aircraft" I will be a happy camper indeed.

 

Dave B.

[EvilBivol-1]

Even though I have thus far totally ignored the radio and datalink systems...

Hence the problem... :) You wingman will quite effectively perform the recon function and datalink back the targets he finds. This is really what's meant by the idea of "handing" targets to the Ka-50 pilot. Another Ka-50 or a similar platform doing the recon and datalinking targets back to the wingmen. You can do this in Black Shark both with your AI wingmen and in Multiplayer with other players.

[thinkr]

Thanks for all your guys input...

 

Too bad noone wants to answer the question about when the steam realease is coming out, guess i'll have to wait:(

 

You know what bugs me about the videos of BS compared to Longbow... flying in the KA-50 looks unrealisticly STABLE "like an airplane theres no shake.

 

This is what i mean, Remember F4 mode in longbow 2 ok only LB2 people will get this.

I never spent much time in the F1 mode unless i had to narrow the Radar direction...

the controls were clear but you could switch to a view "F4" that let you view out an around like 3D cockpit instead of 2D which was "F4".... Yes longbow 2 had a 3D cockpit too.

 

The reason i bring up F4 view was becuase it looked realistic, the screen was just a tiny bit shaking like in a little like a real chopper in flight wouldn't just float like its in space.

 

The thing is huge it should make alot of noise an shake a little in flight.

It reminds of of this quote...

"Choppers don't fly, they just beat the air into submission"

can't remember who said that but anyway its not realistic to think its not a big vibrating floating box...

 

My Opinion: Have the option to turn on or off little realistic shaking when in flight more like when you've learned all the buttons and don't need a perfectly clearn picture of what they say just more of what they look like. a little teter totter... you know?

for noobs they could change the setting to off? I dono I guess wishfull thinking...

 

One more thing I sure hope when the AH-64 comes out you dont forget the ASE and the Stingers since they were really on the Apache?....

 

Question: Isn't there a mission alrady made for you to shoot down another aircraft in BS?

Because Longbow 2 is still the best all-round helicopter simulator to date. Black Shark excels at simulating the aircraft systems but lacks the gameplay and atmosphere of a dynamic campaign.

 

 

I disagree. Nothing including LB2 can touch DCS:BS imo. Everyone talks about dynamic campaign this and that but every dynamic campaign mission I've ever played seem so repetitive. A well scripted mission is much more immersive and full of surprises than computer generated dynamic campaign mission. Ultimately, a computer generated mission will not be able to match a well thought out scripted mission.

[thinkr]

Yeah I agree with you about scripted missions. I wonder how hard would it be to add a realistic shaking cockpit option? Isn't it just a little FOV camera mod? er something. I just made that up so dont look surprised... lol

[crazysundog]

I think the key command for shaky cam is Alt + J; its there, and it works...

[thinkr]

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Why are we comparing a sim that was developed back in the early 90s to one developed over 10 years later? Of course it's better. I would hope so ...

or so you think... sounds like you've never heard of LB2. I can help you out. Longbow 2 had alot more to offer than dated graphics if thats all you base your discision on, in a combat simulator. Email me I'll help you out:pilotfly:

 

This guide should be a good start. http://www.speichts.com/games/lb2/glide_mode.html You really should look at the F4 view I was talking about in a previous post its pretty neat:thumbup:

[thinkr]

I think the key command for shaky cam is Alt + J; its there, and it works...

Sweet jimeny crickets! any video of it in action? guess i'll have to wait... anyway its only 4:28am on newyears eve and I think its about time for bed I look forward to chatting again.

Edited January 1, 2009 by thinkr

[DiabloSP]

I would like to ask: ¿have you ever flown in a chopper? Well, guess the car example will just work anyway.

 

When you are driving in a car, the car is constantly vibrating, your head is moving, the lot. But your eyes and brain filter those vibrations, to the point that you don't notice them anymore (except for the BIG bumps).

 

In a helicopter, it's just the same. You may me mislead by the videos thrown around in the internet, because cameras do shake a lot, unlike the vision from our eyes.

 

In my opinion, a TrackIR/Freetrack experience is good enough in BS as it is, and it's miles ahead of the "F4 View" in LB2.

[rapid]

If people have never played LB2 then they will never get the "gist" of what ex LB2 players are trying to convey across.

No one is saying that DCS BS is not a great sim far from it it is the best Helo sim today. The OP and others are only comparing the two kings of the Helo sim side by side.

The dynamic campaign mission was great because you never knew how long the campaign would last or what type of mission you would be flying next.

All I can say is the king is dead long live the king.

[Vortex]

 

You know what bugs me about the videos of BS compared to Longbow... flying in the KA-50 looks unrealisticly STABLE "like an airplane theres no shake.

 

That's because helicopters ARE more stable than planes. If you are getting a shake in a heli it's most likely a rotor imbalance, something the engineers need to look at.

 

I get far more jiggle in a Cessna 172 than in a Robinson R44. My hands sometimes hit the roof when flying over the ranges in a 172 when I'm trying to refold my map! Same ranges in the R44 and it's like a magic carpet ride in comparison.

[AlphaOneSix]

One more thing I sure hope when the AH-64 comes out you dont forget the ASE and the Stingers since they were really on the Apache?....

 

Stingers were never mounted on production Apaches, only development testbeds. While I cannot say what DCS will or will not do, my hope is that they leave the Stingers OUT.

[Quarrion]

The virtual cockpit shake in LB2 doesn't seem intentional, it jumps in small steps, as if it were caused by a low precision integer number. Possibly an engine limitation.

[Reticuli]

I hate the VR pit shake in LB2 and that you can't see the flir.

 

I think it's a bit odd to say since certain helos were tested for using AAMs but never equiped with them as yet, that somehow that justifies not simulating them in a sim. No modern russian or american helicopter has ever gone up against another modern airforce or helicopter force, so there has never been a need as yet to use such weapon systems. If you're going to make a combat flight sim that models such scenarios, it's absolutely appropriate to include them. You don't think if we went to war with Iran or Korea and airborne threats were an issue for helos they wouldn't be equiped with them?