Remove refueling probe door

[near_blind]

We actually had the BDA there for a hot minute in 2018. Unfortunately the DCS animation system wasn't set up to handle a boom that then dragged a hose, and it was replaced with the MPRS. It'd be nice to get it back eventually.

[Joe1978]

hace 15 horas, DSplayer dijo:

I don’t think the Iranian F-14’s had a different fuel probe at all, especially since it’s all standardized. Fuel probe door being removed was always an option.

 

hace 12 horas, Frosty2124 dijo:

What's your source for this? iirc the cats that were sent to Iran were supported en-route by the 135 so requirements would dictate that they must be the same, also at the time Iran wanted lots of western equipment so again it makes sense that it would be standard fit. 

if they changed it as part of their modernisation/maintenance process (S), I doubt we'll ever have access to that information.

be good to see if you have gen the community doesn't though

I may be wrong but they were different, Iran's idea was to maintain long patrols and buy several K 135s for aerial refueling with the Air Force system, so they ordered that the original refueling probe be replaced on their F14s with the one already used by the Phantom and F15. Being larger, the lid could not be placed, so it was omitted in this model. Only a few cats were supplied with the original probe.

You can see this in books like the Paul Gillcrist's, Tom Cooper, David Brown.... 

As they indicate, in these tomcats the lid was deliberately removed, not because of a mechanical failure or an operational requirement

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Joe1978
orthography

[Joe1978]

hace 12 horas, near_blind dijo:

We actually had the BDA there for a hot minute in 2018. Unfortunately the DCS animation system wasn't set up to handle a boom that then dragged a hose, and it was replaced with the MPRS. It'd be nice to get it back eventually.

  it would be something very cool

[Wingmate]

1 hour ago, Joe1978 said:

 

I may be wrong but they were different, Iran's idea was to maintain long patrols and buy several K 135s for aerial refueling with the Air Force system, so they ordered that the original refueling probe be replaced on their F14s with the one already used by the Phantom and F15. Being larger, the lid could not be placed, so it was omitted in this model. Only a few cats were supplied with the original probe.

You can see this in books like the Paul Gillcrist's, Tom Cooper, David Brown.... 

As they indicate, in these tomcats the lid was deliberately removed, not because of a mechanical failure or an operational requirement

Using the air force refueling system would necessitate a redesign not a different probe. Both the air force phantom and eagle use the boom system which uses a receptacle on the receiver aircraft rather rhan a fixed or retractable probe.

[Joe1978]

About F15, sorry It´s a mistake (I was think in F5 not F15) but the rest seems like ok. 

I have in mind a photo where you can see that the probe is different (it is wider at the end and protruded a little and that is why the cover could not be added). I need to search with patience.

I don't know if it's correct (for copyright reasons), but I add a snippet of a text that I found quickly about the last f14 Irani frames: 

"...meanwhile the eightieth and final IIAF tomcat was at grumman scheduled for conversion to the USAF boom and receiver type aerial refuelling system. The conversion was never compleited and this frame was pleaces in storage at AMARC. In 1986 it was delievered to NADEP brought up to Navy standards"  

Pg94, Tomcat Alley. Brown, David F.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Joe1978

[DSplayer]

5 hours ago, Joe1978 said:

 

I may be wrong but they were different, Iran's idea was to maintain long patrols and buy several K 135s for aerial refueling with the Air Force system, so they ordered that the original refueling probe be replaced on their F14s with the one already used by the Phantom and F15. Being larger, the lid could not be placed, so it was omitted in this model. Only a few cats were supplied with the original probe.

You can see this in books like the Paul Gillcrist's, Tom Cooper, David Brown.... 

As they indicate, in these tomcats the lid was deliberately removed, not because of a mechanical failure or an operational requirement

 

 

Like what @Wingmate said, utilizing the USAF's requirement for boom air to air refueling would require an extensive redesign and would probably be much more difficult to retrofit onto a jet than retrofitting a fuel probe like on the F-5s or F-4s. Doesn't sound very economical to me. I also think the Iranians removed their fuel doors for a similar reason that the US Navy did for theirs. Especially since Iran no longer has a supply of F-14 parts, it would be understandable for them to be cautious when trying to keep their jets flying. An Iranian F-14's TF-30 eating a fuel door would be a pretty big problem for their maintenance guys.

 

Also the refueling probe on the F-4 shouldn't differ too much from the F-14's considering they're using the MA-2 or MA-3 standard.

Edited July 28, 2022 by DSplayer

[Joe1978]

I don't know, I'm just telling you what all these writers have researched. 

The decision to change the probes came directly from the Shah who was first interested in buying the F14A (radar) instead of the new F15A... Grumman and the Navy at that time would have put a Christmas tree if it had been necessary: They needed sell the plane and in 1974 $2bn is a lot of money. 

As I have mentioned before, it seems that only some units of the F14 arrived with the original refueling system.

I would recommend you read these three books (they are good books, have nice photos, and histories and not very expensive) 

Tomcat! The Grumman F-14 story

Tomcat Alley (has photos of all f14 built)

Iranian F 14 Tomcat Units in Combat. 

 

 

[SkateZilla]

The 79 Tomcats Exported to Iran, and the 1 with held by the US all had the same Probe as the Tomcats the US Navy were flying, whomever told you or published that they were different is grossly mis-informed or used in accurate reference material.

The door was simply removed from the export fighters due to the nature of their intended refueling platform, and the doors risk being a risk to that platform.

F-14As sent to Iran did not have the TCS Chinpod, but rather the simple/smaller ALQ Pod.
 

Edited July 28, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Dragon1-1]

It's within the realm of possibility that the probe was not identical to the US Navy one, even if it was compatible with regular drogues. Iran uses probe and drogue AAR, and they might have requested a bespoke design for whatever reason, maybe ease of maintenance or something like that. Stranger things have happened. However, seeing as they used probes, there's zero reason for them to be experimenting with the boom.

In fact, the only reason USAF uses the boom is because of the strategic bombers, since the flow rate can be higher. Everyone else uses probe and drogue, since the main role of the tankers everywhere but in the USAF is to keep tactical aviation in the air, not bombers. 

[SkateZilla]

The probe is the same,
I've physically seen Buno 160378,

Everything is the same as the F-14A 90GR Physically the only changes are the avionics and chinpod.

[NightFlier]

Hi guys, anyone knows what's the skin file to modify the fuel probe color?
It looks too dirty (almost black) on one side but I can't find where it is in the folder

[IronMike]

6 hours ago, NightFlier said:

Hi guys, anyone knows what's the skin file to modify the fuel probe color?
It looks too dirty (almost black) on one side but I can't find where it is in the folder

@LanceCriminal86 might know.

[LanceCriminal86]

I think on the discord we found it was in the Roughmets/AO channel but I can take a look eventually when we are back in town.

[NightFlier]

9 ore fa, LanceCriminal86 ha scritto:

I think on the discord we found it was in the Roughmets/AO channel but I can take a look eventually when we are back in town.

Correct

[Charmin2105]

Can someone provide me an example .lua? Added those lines at the end of it, on an skin where i would like to have it removed, but somehow i did it wrong. Loaded the skin over the groundcrew menu, but door was still there.

[Stackup]

nullThe refueling door removal is the last line of text with the custom arg.  This one works for me when I reload the skin with the ground crew on mission start.  It also shows as removed in the mission editor last I checked although it would then delete the rest of the refueling doors even on skins that still had it enabled.  That's just an ME glitch though.