Landing how to ?

[Zembla]

I find that landing on a helipad is alot harder then the runway, because, quite frankly I can't see vertically down, do I have to come in at an angle and gently "slope" down sideways onto the helipad?

 

I guess I can always open the door and look down?

 

I generally line myself up either behind or to the side of the landing pad. Then when I decrease my altitude, when I hit the 30m marker or something (all done visually, don't really watch the altitude indicator), I slowly fly the heli over the pad. Bring her to a hover there, and let her settle down gently.

 

Not sure if this is the best method, but indeed, otherwise it's kinda hard to know wether or not you're lined up nicely with the pad :p

 

-Z

[Yellonet]

Please read correctly. Where have I posted that you should use throttle insted of collective in case of landing? I've written - make your rpm a bit lower, and than go down by using left stick. A bit lower means not zero point but nominal - low rpm;)

Lowering the RPM is probably not the best idea because if you get into trouble and need to gain some altitude or maneuver away, the reduced power output of the engines might stop you from doing so, and most likely you won't have time to rev up and get the power out to the blades before it's too late.

Sure it might work, but it's not necessarily the best way.

[Frederf]

I find that landing on a helipad is alot harder then the runway, because, quite frankly I can't see vertically down, do I have to come in at an angle and gently "slope" down sideways onto the helipad?

 

I guess I can always open the door and look down?

 

Opening the door is recommended so that during any mishap you have a way to get the f out of the cockpit, also it does help you see the ground better. With the door open and the view slightly askew to the left I can see the H-pad under me pretty well.

 

A straight down landing is hard because of visibility. I come down at an angle, bleeding speed and altitude equally. It's a lot easier to land on a slant instead of straight down. I wouldn't land sideways though; that is really asking for a wheel caught and a whole lotta rotor pieces flying. The wheels like to roll forward, not sideways.

[d0ppler]

Yes I wrote this, but I mentioned the collective too

 

Please, told me, why do you think that using the throttle is prohbited?

Read the manual, esp pages about Basic Flight.

It's very useful, try to decrease rpm with flares in addition, against IR missiles. It'll save you in almost 90% of such cases.

 

Can you please quote, or tell me which page where it says that you should decrease the throttle before landing?

 

I've read about all types of landings and can't find anything mention the throttle at all.

[tusler]

Please read correctly. Where have I posted that you should use throttle insted of collective in case of landing? I've written - make your rpm a bit lower, and than go down by using left stick. A bit lower means not zero point but nominal - low rpm;)

 

Setup a landing situation where you are landing on a frigate, wind at + something, start your approach and lower your throttle and then use your collective. If you do not hit the landing precise and you need to climb away and make another approach you will not have enough power to do it because you have lowered your throttles.

hope you can swim :doh:

[Geier]

Can you please quote, or tell me which page where it says that you should decrease the throttle before landing?

 

I've read about all types of landings and can't find anything mention the throttle at all.

 

6-12, But it's about descend by using autorotation, not about landing:P ho-ho:D

 

Nevertheless I always use throttle to make some quick maneuvers against IR SAM and fast landing without time loosing.

 

 

Setup a landing situation where you are landing on a frigate, wind at + something, start your approach and lower your throttle and then use your collective. If you do not hit the landing precise and you need to climb away and make another approach you will not have enough power to do it because you have lowered your throttles.

hope you can swim :doh:

 

In this very case, agree, you won't have enough power to make another approach. That's a pity, but our Ka is not naval helo and if you land at your base there will be no problem:)

[sobek]

Opening the door is recommended so that during any mishap you have a way to get the f out of the cockpit [...]

 

Honestly, i don't think it is a good idea to try to jump out of the open cockpit door. ;) First, you are strapped to that seat for a good reason. Ever thought about why all instruments that protrude in the area of the pilot head are covered with thick rubber?

Second, the ejection seat isn't there for no reason. That cockpit door is small and above the seat, no way someone could jump out fast enough in the case of an emergency.

Last of all, watch some helicopter crashes on youtube, you honestly want to be outside only a few meters away when a helicopter disintegrates? Might become a once in your lifetime (sic!) experience. :D

[AlphaOneSix]

6-12, But it's about descend by using autorotation, not about landing

 

Just prior to where it says to lower your throttles to IDLE, it's very clearly says...

For training purposes to simulate both engines failing in flight.

 

So when you are lowering your throttle to land, you are simulating a dual engine failure from a hover.

 

Oh, and then there is this, shortly after where it tells you to use IDLE for training an autorotation (not during a real one, just when practicing one)...

At a safe altitude, move the engines throttle levers to the Auto position

Edited December 30, 2008 by AlphaOneSix

[sobek]

Isn't the only safe altitude in a heli 0 ft AGL? :D

[Shrubbo]

Isn't the only safe altitude in a heli 0 ft AGL? :D

 

Well ...err... no :D

 

http://www.helis.com/howflies/groures.php

[sobek]

Has anybody ever died from ground resonance? I believe that the resonace frequency is close to that of some organs, however, this should only cause severe nausea (given that no parts of the rotor penetrate the airframe). :D

[ZaltysZ]

Comment to discussion of AlphaOneSix and Geier, regarding throttle:

 

There is much more possible position of throttle than there have been named in manual. I personally have assigned it to axis and frequently use "unnamed" positions. I have not crashed or broken anything yet with such usage; as I like to watch blade rpm, variometer and temperatures.

 

Maybe landing on IDLE is bad idea as you may not get chance to correct mistakes. :D However, landing or flying or hovering with something between AUTO and IDLE is quite easy, especially after sortie, when your weight is low. Why it might be beneficial to lower throttle (not to IDLE)? With lower power helicopter reacts much less and more slowly, so it might look more smooth and make landing a bit easier. Of course, recover will be much harder, if need arises.

[Geier]

Just prior to where it says to lower your throttles to IDLE, it's very clearly says...

 

So when you are lowering your throttle to land, you are simulating a dual engine failure from a hover.

 

Yes, when we use it like a part of autorotation landing exercises.

But we can use it in combat situations against IR missiles and during the landing in attempt to make it more soft. Just try it and you'll feel that your helo lands polite. The disadvantage is is the only one. In close combat one attempt will turn into a big crush. In these very cases you're always needed to hold throttle in takeoff mode.

 

Oh, and then there is this, shortly after where it tells you to use IDLE for training an autorotation (not during a real one, just when practicing one)...

 

Agree, ^^

 

 

Comment to discussion of AlphaOneSix and Geier, regarding throttle:

 

There is much more possible position of throttle than there have been named in manual. I personally have assigned it to axis and frequently use "unnamed" positions. I have not crashed or broken anything yet with such usage; as I like to watch blade rpm, variometer and temperatures.

 

Maybe landing on IDLE is bad idea as you may not get chance to correct mistakes. :D However, landing or flying or hovering with something between AUTO and IDLE is quite easy, especially after sortie, when your weight is low. Why it might be beneficial to lower throttle (not to IDLE)? With lower power helicopter reacts much less and more slowly, so it might look more smooth and make landing a bit easier. Of course, recover will be much harder, if need arises.

 

For sure. Especially when you're hovering over you base you can use this trick without any problem:)

[Frederf]

Honestly, i don't think it is a good idea to try to jump out of the open cockpit door. ;) First, you are strapped to that seat for a good reason. Ever thought about why all instruments that protrude in the area of the pilot head are covered with thick rubber?

Second, the ejection seat isn't there for no reason. That cockpit door is small and above the seat, no way someone could jump out fast enough in the case of an emergency.

Last of all, watch some helicopter crashes on youtube, you honestly want to be outside only a few meters away when a helicopter disintegrates? Might become a once in your lifetime (sic!) experience. :D

 

I don't mean before or during a crash but after. In a Cessna 172 our emergency off-field landing procedure involved opening the doors. The idea is during a crash the frame would bend and then the doors would be stuck closed so you couldn't get out.

 

Also anyone have the safe ejection parameters in terms of speed, alt, and attitude?

 

As far as throttle position goes, I will often move the throttle levers to MAX for the last 10 seconds of hover landing so I have MORE power, not less.

[AlphaOneSix]

The throttle has four detents along its axis of movement. Of course you can move it all along its axis of movement and not necessarily be in a detent position.

 

It's your game (not anyone specifically, I mean everyone who bought and plays the game), you bought it, and you can play it in any way that entertains you, since that is the whole purpose of the game.

 

My argument is about realism and what is done in the real aircraft. When you are going to go fly, you put the throttles to AUTO. They stay there until you land, unless you either A) experience an emergency where you lose and engine and you need to bring the remaining engine to EMERGENCY power, or B) you are practicing emergency procedures for a failed engine, where you would move your "dead" engine to IDLE.

 

If you are using your throttle in any other way while flying, it is not realistic in accordance with what a real pilot of a Ka-50 would do. Of course, if it pleases you to do so and enhances your enjoyment of the game, then rock on.

[Geier]

The throttle has four detents along its axis of movement. Of course you can move it all along its axis of movement and not necessarily be in a detent position.

 

It's your game (not anyone specifically, I mean everyone who bought and plays the game), you bought it, and you can play it in any way that entertains you, since that is the whole purpose of the game.

 

My argument is about realism and what is done in the real aircraft. When you are going to go fly, you put the throttles to AUTO. They stay there until you land, unless you either A) experience an emergency where you lose and engine and you need to bring the remaining engine to EMERGENCY power, or B) you are practicing emergency procedures for a failed engine, where you would move your "dead" engine to IDLE.

 

If you are using your throttle in any other way while flying, it is not realistic in accordance with what a real pilot of a Ka-50 would do. Of course, if it pleases you to do so and enhances your enjoyment of the game, then rock on.

 

We're all speaking about realism and our intention is clear - bring this game as close to RL as possible. No doubt you should hold throttle in auto position when your flight is simple from point A to point B. Agree that you can avoid using throttle when you lands and the situation is safe enough.

But what will you do when there's close combat or you know that lots of stinger stuff can be near your base. When you flares are out but you should complete your mission?

Speaking about realism don't forget that Ka is combat helo. Remember how our planes and helos were landing in Afghanistan war. The "leaf" thechnic was widely spreaded right there.

[d0ppler]

Well Geier, you obviously won't admit you're wrong. But it's your game and you can do whatever you want with it.

[Geier]

Well Geier, you obviously won't admit you're wrong. But it's your game and you can do whatever you want with it.

I'm wrong with the decision that was developed during the afghan war by real pilots?

[d0ppler]

I'm wrong with the decision that was developed during the afghan war by real pilots?

 

The guy who started this thread asked HOW REAL PILOTS LANDS the chopper, when you replied that you should reduce throttle, which is wrong.

 

He didn't ask about how pilots avoided missiles in the Afghanistan war.

[ericinexile]

Landing:

 

1) All Blue buttons OFF

***an alternative that's a little easier is to turn FD ON and keep the Blue lights ON***

2) Line up with runway at approx 2km and 100 meters. Speed <100 kph.

3) Note the position of runway numbers on the windscreen and keep them fixed with the collective. Doing that speed will take care of itself.

4) As you decelerate <30 kph you will need to pitch forward to a level attitude and add lots of collective.

5) Make sure brake is off ("Cntl-Enter")

6) Use collective to make a gentle touchdown while keeping pitch attitude level. A little forward speed is fine.

 

Smokin' Hole

[Geier]

The guy who started this thread asked HOW REAL PILOTS LANDS the chopper, when you replied that you should reduce throttle, which is wrong.

He didn't ask about how pilots avoided missiles in the Afghanistan war.

Yes I've written this. But this is how real pilots land in combat situation. Or you can land only in comfort conditions?

If he wants to be a really good pilot he must know all kind of landings, even when it doesn't typed in manual.

[Airway]

Well, Geier has found a way for him to land even if it's not the official, in the handbook written down, method.

This is how unique man is - there can be two totally different person, doing things on different way but achieving the same goal.

 

Abstract thinking is allowed here :)

[AlphaOneSix]

But this is how real pilots land in combat situation.

 

If you are saying that they reduce their throttles to land, you are terribly mistaken. Throttles stay in AUTO detent and do not move unless in the case of engine failure or practicing engine failure.

[Geier]

Well, Geier has found a way for him to land even if it's not the official, in the handbook written down, method.

This is how unique man is - there can be two totally different person, doing things on different way but achieving the same goal.

 

Abstract thinking is allowed here :)

Oh yes:)

Wish all happy New Year!!!

[Airway]

Oh yes:)

Wish all happy New Year!!!

 

A happy new year to you too ! :)