Empty wing pylons (particularly wing tips)

[Nealius]

The majority of real-world F1 pics indicate that pylons/missile rails were almost always loaded, particularly on the wingtips. It would be nice to have the option for those instead of having totally slick wings.

[Bremspropeller]

Bump.

Plus the addition of empty external tanks would be awesome - well, certainly for the EE with the refuelling probe.

[grim_reaper68]

Just modify the value at the end of the pylon 1 and 7 line from val=0.0 to 1.0 in the Mirage-F1.lua  You will have them, but of all the aircraft. 

[turkeydriver]

Real world scenario is NOT empty pylons remaining.  The wingtip rails were often removed as they do increase drag.  They were kept if a Magic training round was loaded. 
I have seen a few pictures of a jet flying with empty rails, but by and large at least from photo evidence the pylons were removed in French service.  Other operators may have retained them to be able to load them quicker.

[Bremspropeller]

1 hour ago, turkeydriver said:

Real world scenario is NOT empty pylons remaining.  The wingtip rails were often removed as they do increase drag.  They were kept if a Magic training round was loaded. 
I have seen a few pictures of a jet flying with empty rails, but by and large at least from photo evidence the pylons were removed in French service.  Other operators may have retained them to be able to load them quicker.

There are no absolutes, though. I'd love to carry the training round if that's what it takes - once the asymmetry/ imbalance issue gets fixed.

Despite seing more pics without the tips when clean, I have seen plenty of pictures of F1Cxs with empty (tip)racks. Both just tips and the 530 racks.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/France-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1C-200/2433500

Same jet:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/France-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1C-200/2552598/L

 

Metropole bird:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/France-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1C/1093543/L

https://www.airliners.net/photo/France-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1C/2390535/L

https://www.airliners.net/photo/France-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1C/972129/L

CR

 

CE-M

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Spain-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1CE-M/742282/L

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Spain-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1CE-M/1352275/L

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Spain-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1CE-M/799752/L

 

CG

 

etc

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[turkeydriver]

Let me be more clear on this.  Deployed- they were retained.  Many peacetime photos and references show them removed  for the specifics of drag and fuel economy. In this sim we are mostly simulating a wartime scenario so pylons would be retained- should have thought this through before posting.  

[Bremspropeller]

@fausete is there a way to make the wing-pylons (Tips, Inboard pylons) be on the aircraft as standard, but deletable like on the other modules?

https://www.airliners.net/photo/France-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1C/809005/L

https://www.airliners.net/photo/France-Air-Force/Dassault-Mirage-F1C/2635284/L

That way one could put asymmetric missiles on the tip-launchers or inboard pylons, which is now not possible (it won't put the other empty pylon onto the jet). Expanding this to all pylons (including outboard stations and fuselage station) would of course also be a workable solution.

With the deletable option, I guess we can make the purists and those people driving for more flexible loadouts happy at the same time.

French F1C-200s have been flying with asymmetric Magics or asymmetric S530Fs - or no Supers but with the pylons on (see top) - especially in Chad to keep the flight time on the limited supply of Supers low.

Finding pics on the net for the asymmetric Supers is hard. I had once seen a pic where you could tell by the shadow. You'll find them in books, though, e.g. F. LERT "Mirage F1" pg. 45,46 and 52.

[Bremspropeller]

Inboard pylons without the tips:

http://bdd.deltareflex.com/cns_affiche.php?image=8037

http://bdd.deltareflex.com/cns_affiche.php?image=8036 (same jet, same day, different angle)

Tips installed (no missiles) and S530Fs inboard:

http://bdd.deltareflex.com/cns_affiche.php?image=20329

 

More chadian assymetries:

Magic on the RH tip is covered. There may or may not be a Super on the LH inboard pylon.

No Magic on the LH tip (only obvious via the shadow).

Three Cornouaille jets with Magics on the RH pylon only. In Lela Presse Mirage F1 Vol.2 pg. 101 you'll see three EC 12 birds (Cambrésis, Picardie and Cornouaille) with a Magic on the LH launchers only. Same page shows Zulu India (see above), also with a Magic on the RH pylon only.

 

Edit: In Alexandre Paringaux' book on the F1 we'll see Zulu Mike from the post above with a single S530F on page 117.

Page 116 shows a Vendée bird with a single S530F. Both have the Super on the left pylon.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Bremspropeller

[Bremspropeller]

@fausete do you think the proposal above is feasible?

Cheers

[fausete]

We're taking a look at it, I'll come back with an answer when we have it!

[Stratos]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:09 PM, fausete said:

We're taking a look at it, I'll come back with an answer when we have it!

Hope you can keep the hability to fly without the wingtip pylons too.