F1EE F1M expected combat performance

[twistking]

I'm very excited about the F1EE and M since i think they will be "perfect" modules for dcs with complex avionics but still requiring skill and hands-on flying.
I couldn't find much info on the exact capabilities of the two versions though. Could someone give me some rough idea where they would fit in the dcs food chain?

The M seems to be surprisingly modern, so i expect computer and ranging radar assisted ground attack capabilities (ccip, ccrp or similar), modern RWR and a healthy amount of chaff/flares.
For BVR i expect it to carry the 530D and a radar that can make good use of it, so my guess is, that it will be comparable to the Mirage 2000 and roughly comparable to Sparrow-only modern US-Teens.
BFM should still be similar to older gen, so at a big disadvantage compared to 2000 and Teens, but with better Heatseekers and more flares comapred to F1CE.
Do you think that's roughly accurate?

For the F1EE i could not find anything at all. Will it have computer bombing modes? Will it have 530D missiles and will it's radar be good enough to use them to their max potential?

Will any of the two versions have access to a laser designator (onboard or pod)?

[RG2021]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

For BVR i expect it to carry the 530D and a radar that can make good use of it

Nope. The F1M still had the Cyrano IV M radar, and thus it can’t use the 530D. The “D” in “530D” stands for “doppler”. The Cyrano IV M isn’t a doppler radar. However, the Super 530F WILL be available, even on the F1CE.

One thing different on the F1M’s radar is a sea mode, which leads me to believe that it may get an Exocet! I hope the F1EE gets an Exocet as well, though. I’d like to fly an older feeling aircraft and use the Exocet, as the Iraqis did in the Iran-Iraq War and the Gulf War.

Considering that the CE and EE will, more-or-less, carry the same weapons, but the EE is considered multirole, I would be led to believe that the EE may be equipped with CCIP and/or CCRP. So the F1M will surely be equipped with CCIP and CCRP abilities.

[twistking]

15 minutes ago, RG2021 said:

Nope. The F1M still had the Cyrano IV M radar, and thus it can’t use the 530D. The “D” in “530D” stands for “doppler”. The Cyrano IV M isn’t a doppler radar. However, the Super 530F WILL be available, even on the F1CE.

One thing different on the F1M’s radar is a sea mode, which leads me to believe that it may get an Exocet! I hope the F1EE gets an Exocet as well, though. I’d like to fly an older feeling aircraft and use the Exocet, as the Iraqis did in the Iran-Iraq War and the Gulf War.

Considering that the CE and EE will, more-or-less, carry the same weapons, but the EE is considered multirole, I would be led to believe that the EE may be equipped with CCIP and/or CCRP. So the F1M will surely be equipped with CCIP and CCRP abilities.

I see. Thanks for the info.
So it's safe to assume that even the F1M will have a bit of hard time in BVR against the teen fighters (Sparrow only)?

Do you expect the EE to have AG radar ranging then? It would need that (or laser ranging) for any assisted bombing modes, wouldn't it?

[RG2021]

20 minutes ago, twistking said:

Do you expect the EE to have AG radar ranging then? It would need that (or laser ranging) for any assisted bombing modes, wouldn't it?

Yes, but that’s not too outrageous to expect, at least I don’t think so. But it uses the same weapons, and is referred to as being multirole, whereas the F1CE isn’t. It surely has something special that makes it better at ground attack than the CE. And if if has the same weapons, I would imagine that the special feature must be increased precision.

[TLTeo]

The EE will not have CCIP and CCRP to my knowledge, that will only come with the F1M. What it will have is an INS (which really helps in navigating to your target) and improved RWR (which obviously is more useful for a strike aircraft than an interceptor).

[twistking]

ok. thanks for the answers!

Do you have any rough ideas what to expect from the Super 530F? Since i understand that i't not "doppler-guided", will it easily get lost in ground clutter etc.?
Will it be somewhat comparable to R-27R (not ER obviously)?

Edited July 23, 2022 by twistking

[TLTeo]

I'm guessing something in AM-7E/F territory ish.

[WinterH]

4 hours ago, twistking said:

For BVR i expect it to carry the 530D and a radar that can make good use of it, so my guess is, that it will be comparable to the Mirage 2000 and roughly comparable to Sparrow-only modern US-Teens.

I will assume that you are meaning the Super 530D. It shouldn't afaik. While right now many AI F1s have it, I am assuming it is a placeholder. It should be able to use Super 530F. Unlike what one would expect, F is the earlier and less capable of two, but it will still be a lot better than R530s. I think it is roughly equivalent to AIM-7F but not sure.

4 hours ago, twistking said:

but with better Heatseekers and more flares comapred to F1CE.

No better heatseekers, same missiles. Also not sure about more countermeasures either.

4 hours ago, twistking said:

For the F1EE i could not find anything at all. Will it have computer bombing modes? Will it have 530D missiles and will it's radar be good enough to use them to their max potential?

EE will be the exact same as CE when it comes to bombing and other sorts of ground attack. It will, however, be able to do aerial refueling, and will also have an INS navigation system. It will also have the option of equipping a better RWR.

As for the radar thing, both the CE and EE we have get an upgraded Cyrano IVM, which isn't quite the same as yet more upgraded one on F1M, but pretty close. The radar we have is already capable of locking a target at a range quite long enough for Super 530F even as far as I know, and later when Aerges implements the missile, CE will get it too afaik.

F1M's radar will have better air to ground capabilities I think, and maybe slightly better look-down capability.

2 hours ago, twistking said:

So it's safe to assume that even the F1M will have a bit of hard time in BVR against the teen fighters (Sparrow only)?

All things being equal, it has no business trying to BVR joust with anything 4th gen, be it a teen series, or Flanker, or even Fulcrum. But it still prove victorious with ambushes etc. Iraqi F1EQs did shoot down some Iranian F-14s, but they've also lost some of their numbers against them.

4 hours ago, twistking said:

Will any of the two versions have access to a laser designator (onboard or pod)?

No. None of the Spanish versions had a TGP, and frankly, as far as I know, before the much later Moroccan MF2000 ASTRAC upgrade, the only F1s with a targeting pod was Iraqi F1EQ5 and EQ6s, which had either ATLIS or ATLIS II, probably former not sure.

[bennyboy9800]

It would be a shame if we miss out on EQ upgrades like ATLIS and exocet...