Hornet Radar and Helos

[Harker]

It's going to be incredibly difficult to locate publicly available technical documents that specifically refer to the APG-73's ability to detect helicopters or anything else, for that matter. It's a far better approach to use radar technical data for deterministic calculations and use any IRL data points to fine tune each radar's model. It's the path of least resistance, only requires access to the radar specs and it ensures a decent approach throughout the sim.

More to the question at hand, what can be done is use well established radar equations in order to calculate detection ranges, using the APG-73's specs (which are publicly available and have been shared before) and use publications such as the ones posted above, to calculate an "effective RCS" for rotorcraft.

[BIGNEWY]

I have brought this thread to the attention of the team, that is all I can do at the moment. 

thanks

 

[Yaga]

3 hours ago, Harker said:

It's going to be incredibly difficult to locate publicly available technical documents that specifically refer to the APG-73's ability to detect helicopters or anything else, for that matter. It's a far better approach to use radar technical data for deterministic calculations and use any IRL data points to fine tune each radar's model. It's the path of least resistance, only requires access to the radar specs and it ensures a decent approach throughout the sim.

More to the question at hand, what can be done is use well established radar equations in order to calculate detection ranges, using the APG-73's specs (which are publicly available and have been shared before) and use publications such as the ones posted above, to calculate an "effective RCS" for rotorcraft.
 

I agree word for word. 

Hoping the eventual radar white paper outlines the calculations being applied, the rational behind choosing them, and some evidence that the method applied produces results that agree with available data. Bonus points awarded if it goes as far as evaluating areas where there is discrepancy with RL data and potential ways to reduce it as development continues. 

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have brought this thread to the attention of the team, that is all I can do at the moment. 

thanks

 

Great. Thank you!

[ATD123]

I didn't know if I should make a new thread or resurrect this one. 

Considering it's been three years and through my humble observations the situation hasn't changed much, would it be possible to get an update? Has there been any released information or an attempt to mitigate the poor performance of the radar vs. rotary wing aircraft? 

I had two black sharks off my nose by about a half mile and slightly above me over water, and couldn't target them with the radar. They were moving left to right (probably around 80km/h).

I just refuse to believe our fine Navy pilots couldn't light these commies on fire.

Edited June 12 by ATD123

[Muchocracker]

Change the speedgate to WIDE

[Pavlin_33]

On 6/12/2025 at 7:46 AM, ATD123 said:

I didn't know if I should make a new thread or resurrect this one. 

Considering it's been three years and through my humble observations the situation hasn't changed much, would it be possible to get an update? Has there been any released information or an attempt to mitigate the poor performance of the radar vs. rotary wing aircraft? 

I had two black sharks off my nose by about a half mile and slightly above me over water, and couldn't target them with the radar. They were moving left to right (probably around 80km/h).

I just refuse to believe our fine Navy pilots couldn't light these commies on fire.

Is there any evidence of RL fighters actively engaging helicopters with their radars in a2a mode?

[silverdevil]

On 7/27/2025 at 3:32 PM, Pavlin_33 said:

Is there any evidence of RL fighters actively engaging helicopters with their radars in a2a mode?

hello

there are several instances documented of fixed wing aircraft shooting down rotor aircraft. and some rotor aircraft shooting down fixed wing aircraft. one example is and f-15e dropping a GBU-12 on an MI-8 in iraq. 

now that does not really answer the theme of this post. i do have a mission that i made where i am able to track helos in the f-16 radar.

[Pavlin_33]

2 hours ago, silverdevil said:

... one example is and f-15e dropping a GBU-12 on an MI-8 in iraq. 

 

Hi,

that one does not really fall under fighters hunting down helos using A2A radar modes/missiles.

Any specific RL example that we know of?

 

[silverdevil]

10 minutes ago, Pavlin_33 said:

Hi,

that one does not really fall under fighters hunting down helos using A2A radar modes/missiles.

Any specific RL example that we know of?

my example is still considered an air to air kill being that both AC were in the air. with a few minutes of you searching, you can find examples

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_combat_victories_of_United_States_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

February 4, 1991 - A McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle (Serial Number : 89-0487) shot down a Mil Mi-24 helicopter when it dropped its bomb load of GBU-10 precision guided bombs. The F-15E was piloted by Captain Richard Bennett and Captain Dan Bakke.[28]
February 6, 1991 - A Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 77-0205) shot down a Mil Mi-8 helicopter using its GAU-8/A Avenger rotary cannon. The A-10 was piloted by Captain Robert Swain.[29]
February 6, 1991 - A Grumman F-14 Tomcat (Bureau Number : 162603) shot down a Mil Mi-8 helicopter using an AIM-9 Sidewinder missile. The pilots of the aircraft were Commander Ron McElraft and Lieutenant Stuart Broce.[30]
February 7, 1991 - A McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle (Serial Number : 80-003) shot down a Mil Mi-24 helicopter using an AIM-7 Sparrow missile. The pilot was Major Randy "May Day" May.[34]
February 11, 1991 - A McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle (Serial Number : 79-048) shot down a Mil Mi-8 helicopter using an AIM-7 Sparrow missile. The pilot is Captain Mark McKenzie and he shares the kill with Steve "Gunga" Dingee". He is credited with .5 kills.[36]
February 11, 1991 - A McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle (Serial Number : 80-012) shot down a Mil Mi-8 helicopter using an AIM-7 Sparrow missile. The pilot is Captain Steve "Gunga" Dingee and he shares the kill with Mark McKenzie. He is credit with .5 kills.[37]
February 15, 1991 - A Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 81-0964) shot down a Mil Mi-8 helicopter using its GAU-8/A Avenger rotary cannon. The A-10 was piloted by Captain Todd Sheehy.[38]

being that the AIM-7 is a radar missile, picking up a helicopter via radar is proven.

[Pavlin_33]

5 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

being that the AIM-7 is a radar missile, picking up a helicopter via radar is proven.

Sure, but this was neither TWS or RWS like the OP mentioned, and also it would be great to know if this particular encounter was a look-down and how fast was the helo flying.

Nice find otherwise.

[silverdevil]

3 minutes ago, Pavlin_33 said:

Sure, but this was neither TWS or RWS like the OP mentioned, and also it would be great to know if this particular encounter was a look-down and how fast was the helo flying.

Nice find otherwise.

RL evidence does not show anything other than f-15c action. and fine points about mode is not mentioned. the radars AN/APG-63 and AN/APG-65 are the two radars in the DCS jets.