[Asset Pack] Make ships of same class the same unit with differentiation through skins election

[twistking]

Basically what the title says.

[WinterH]

Unless they have an intention later on to model differences between each ship (if that exists of course), it stuck me too as an odd choice,. cluttering the units list this way with a separate entry for each ship despite the being, at least right now, exactly the same.

 

[Northstar98]

I agree, though note that the different ships do indeed have unique models - the nameplate is different and is indeed 3D (though Ariadne should have a different HF/DF antenna).

Personally, a better way of going about it would be having collapsible menus in the units list, but that's more work from ED's side.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Northstar98

[twistking]

my hope would be that having them as the same unit with only the nameplate/hull number being a different texture, would make it more efficient memory-wise, but of course that would not work if the mdoels are different...

[Northstar98]

44 minutes ago, twistking said:

my hope would be that having them as the same unit with only the nameplate/hull number being a different texture, would make it more efficient memory-wise, but of course that would not work if the mdoels are different...

The nameplate is 3D and so far that's the only difference between them (though I thought the C-101 did minor model changes with its liveries?). Ariadne should have a more different model, but doesn't in DCS.

As for memory, the individual entries are barely above a dozen kb at most. The individual model files are substantially larger (~65 MB for each ship) which would be substantially less if they were one model, with the differences controlled via animation arguments.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Northstar98

[WinterH]

14 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

though I thought the C-101 did minor model changes with its liveries?

Both C-101 and Mirage F1 can use arguments in skin choice to display parts of the 3d model differently. However, I don't know if this is a feature only possible for aircraft 3d models or if it also work on AI ground/naval objects. Some ground objects do have model differences we can choose from a separate tab like having tents, bushes, a rifle, being loaded or emtpy etc. Examples would be most WW2 vehicles, and also the Land Rover 101FC. Perhaps it can be handled that way for other ships besides the Ariadne.

[Northstar98]

20 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Both C-101 and Mirage F1 can use arguments in skin choice to display parts of the 3d model differently. However, I don't know if this is a feature only possible for aircraft 3d models or if it also work on AI ground/naval objects. Some ground objects do have model differences we can choose from a separate tab like having tents, bushes, a rifle, being loaded or emtpy etc. Examples would be most WW2 vehicles, and also the Land Rover 101FC.

I think these are all handled via animation arguments, perhaps a similar thing could be done here? (The only thing to note is that Achilles and Ariadne are both the exact same class and variant (both being batch 3Bs) and Andromeda isn't (batch 3 in current configuration, later updated to batch 3A which is substantially different), so IMO, it doesn't really make sense to have Ariadne separated.

20 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Perhaps it can be handled that way for other ships besides the Ariadne.

If the differences can be handled as animation arguments then they could all be listed as a class and have the liveries trigger the argument (like HB's Tomcat with the refuelling probe door).

Though personally, my most requested thing would be to have these things placed in collapsible menus:

Spoiler

So we'd have something like:

[-] Type 12I (Leander) FF:

[-] Batch 3:

• F57 HMS Andromeda

[-] Batch 3B:

• F12 HMS Achilles
• F72 HMS Andromeda

Edited August 7, 2022 by Northstar98

[Minsky]

Livery arguments are kinda limited. The Tomcat's refueling door removal doesn't work with AI and air starts, and can only be used by players if the modified livery is requested on rearming.

The "Additional properties" tab in the Mission Editor, as suggested by WinterH, seems to be a better option.

P.S. I wouldn't mind two separate models had the Razbam created them in a less "copy & paste" manner. I.e. with different weathering, deck objects, antennas, etc. Sure, it's "just" 60 Mb here and a couple 4K textures there, but this stuff piles up over time.

[Northstar98]

3 hours ago, Minsky said:

Livery arguments are kinda limited. The Tomcat's refueling door removal doesn't work with AI and air starts, and can only be used by players if the modified livery is requested on rearming. The "Additional properties" tab in the Mission Editor, as suggested by WinterH, seems to be a better option.

Well, something that triggers an animation argument, I just checked the WWII asset pack units and the different configuration elements controlled by the additional properties tab is done by animation arguments (for instance, the Horch 901's tented roof is controlled by argument 60).

3 hours ago, Minsky said:

P.S. I wouldn't mind two separate models had the Razbam created them in a less "copy & paste" manner. I.e. with different weathering, deck objects, antennas, etc. Sure, it's "just" 60 Mb here and a couple 4K textures there, but this stuff piles up over time.

Well, RAZBAM have got the deck equipment and weathering accurate to RL, so I'm not sure about that. As for the antennas - it's only Ariadne that's different here and only with the HF/DF antenna.

It would've been better if they modelled Andromeda as it was during the Falklands War, which would've been significantly different.