era-correct skins for a complete Carrier Air Wing

[Phantom711]

I know that this is a bit on the nerdy side, but it bugs me, that it is not possible to create an era-correct CVW with it`s corresponding squadron skins. That would include hi-vis as well as lo-vis liveries for player/AI aircraft AND static objects (aircraft). I don`t want a deck only full of CAG-birds.

I mean, just pick a CVW out of the 90s or early 2000s that was deployed on a Nimitz-class carrier, coordinate between Heatblur (F-14) and the ED F/A-18 team and come up with something! I am not asking for all CVWs...only ONE!!!! I don`t even care which one.

Just a suggestion:

CVW-3 on the Harry S. Truman from ~2000-2005

Some comments regarding alredy officially existing skins in brackets ()

 

VF-32 (CAG bird exists as player aircraft. lo-vis with USS Enterprise markings only, tailcode correct though, no corresponding skins for static objects) 

VFA-37 (YES!!!!...both for static and player/AI already there)

VFA-105 (No...but no big deal, since VFA-37 exists)

VMFA-312, later VMFA-115 (correct skins for VMFA-312 with AC tailcode already there)

VAW-126

VAQ-130 

VRC-40 Det 1 

VS-22

HS-7

 

I have some further questions:

E-2C/E-2D: Why is there no E-2C instead of the E-2D? The E-2D was not out there prior 2010. Well luckily I don`t notive a difference, once the propellers are spinning .

EA-6B/C-2A: I can place all kinds of equipement on the deck, but none of these...!?

S-3: The only selectable skin is named "Navy standard".where it clearly shows specific squadron markings and a NH tailcode...) Maybe when the new model comes out I guess....

SH-60: No squadron markings at all. Still better than the S-3...

 

The best thing is, ED could probably get all needed skins almost for free, by making it some contest (winner gets module xy...).

 

I know...skinpacks are (probably) out there...but then it won`t work in MP...

 

 

[Minsky]

It's not that hard to download a livery and ask your buddies to do the same if they also crave realism.

Forcing everyone to download gigabytes of data likely useless to them is a bad practice. Because once started, this would never stop.

Same reason why we don't have on-the-fly livery downloading in MP.

[Phantom711]

Seriously man? We have such useless skins in the game. Skins without any operational relevance...like the Blue Angels...or as it is the case for the E-2D: a "Demonstrator" skin... 

And then there are even fictional skins (look! I am Maverick!!!! ) Was I allowed to choose not to download that?

I just checked the size of some skins in the user files forum. A reasonably good F/A-18 or F-14 skin is like 100MB or less.

 

Besides...I`ve never heard anyone saying: "Oh please ED, when you release that module...don`t let us have too many skins with it!"

[Minsky]

Please don't mix one-time PR stunts (Maverick) and skins bundled with modules (they try to satisfy everyone with variety) with the addition of a set of very particular liveries across wide selection of aircraft.

Improving and replacing existing liveries is one thing. Enforcing dozens of fairly obscure skins upon everyone, so that the Navy community could enjoy their historical accuracy, is another.

I can already hear further requests to include more squadrons for this carrier on that deployment. And then it inevitably spreads. Why bother uploading anything non-fictional to User Files if  it could be bundled with DCS? I'm exaggerating of course, but good luck explaining to people how your case is different from theirs.

You obviously have good intentions, but this could create a dangerous precedent.

[Phantom711]

This is a wish thread.

 

I can wish for whatever I want. I don‘t think my wish is all that crazy compared to others it would actually be pretty easily to be achieved.

Maybe someone will agree with me, but it is your right to be opposed to my wish. Welcome to democracy!

 

now that I think about it, I probably low-balled on my wish: actually I want 6 realistic CVWs. 2 each for the 80s, 9s and early 2000s. One Atlantic and one Pacific CVW for each period.

[Minsky]

As a huge fan of carrier ops, I'm not opposed to this particular wish. It would be nice to have some existing skins upgraded to something prettier and less generic.

I rather opposed to the idea and negative consequences it could lead to.

People should be free to decide if they want to download something this huge. You're asking to take away this freedom.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Minsky

[Nealius]

We do have various user liveries to put some accurate c.2000s CVWs together, but they are frustratingly few in number and severely bloat your SSD. And since they are projects done by regular people, personal favorites are going to take priority over practical use. There's also the lingering issue of the E-2D, which doesn't fit the timeframe of our assets at all. 

Default Hornet liveries are only about 15MB, so I don't particularly see the download size issue that Minsky mentions. If we made 5 seperate all-Hornet CVWs for the 5 modern carriers we have, that's only 300MB. 

Now what would be cool is if we could get dynamic tail codes so we get a small number of liveries representing different squadrons, then the user can punch in the necessary tail code for whatever CVW or deployment they need in the mission editor.  

Edited August 21, 2022 by Nealius

[Minsky]

An average Hornet livery I have weight about 40 Mb. Tomcat liveries typically weight hundreds of megabytes. Knowing HB, Intruder's liveries will certainly be in the same ballpark. A decent E-2D livery weight 35 Mb. A S-3B repaint averages at 13 Mb for the current model, and will be much heavier for the new one.

So, eight to ten squadrons per deployment, with CAG birds and helos, equals to at least 1 Gb. This is assuming we would be able to properly place all bort numbers and markings for every aircraft, and wouldn't have to resort to unique liveries.

And all this would only cover a single carrier during one particular deployment handpicked by somebody.

[Phantom711]

I could absolutely live with lower quality skins for the static objects.

also I don‘t need CAG bird skins for them. Leave those fancy skins for the player/AI aircraft…if at all. 
I would consider the Hornet to be „served“ already…there is probably a skin representing most CVWs already there. Now combining it with a correct Tomcat is a different story.

[Nealius]

8 hours ago, Minsky said:

An average Hornet livery I have weight about 40 Mb.

These must be from the User Files. Default Hornet liveries in the main install are all 13~15MB. 

[fagulha]

I have Hornet liveries that weight 833 Mb in disk. I have about +32 Gb in Hornet liveries. I rather be able to download them through here or DCS User files than to "impose" to other users Gb´s in liveries they won´t use.

Edited September 17, 2022 by fagulha

[Uxi]

at least one complete carrier wing with appropriate skins would be nice. Probably early-mid 2000s. Need an E-2C AI model though.  

[Harker]

I have Hornet liveries that weight 833 Mb in disk. I have about +32 Gb in Hornet liveries. I rather be able to download them through here or DCS User files than to "impose" to other users Gb´s in liveries they won´t use.

Same. In general, I find that modules have way too many liveries in the vanilla game, that users are forced to install, even if they don't own the module and are never in missions with it. IMO, livery packs for modules should be optional downloads, like maps.

[Northstar98]

For me, I absolutely see the appeal of having liveries that fit current and future assets in game, such that we can replicate historically accurate decks (personally, going forward I'm most interested in representing the upcoming Saratoga circa 1984 for some RSR action on the upcoming Kola map, which means VF-74 and VF-103).

At the same time though, I absolutely support the idea of shipping aircraft with only a few liveries and then provide the rest in optional packs, allowing me to choose what liveries I install. As it stands there are a lot of liveries I either don't use and don't forsee myself using in the forseeable future, as well as liveries I change the name of to make the naming more consistent and less of a mess. The problem is, whenever I delete these liveries to free up some more space on my rapidly filling SSD, they get redownloaded again whenever the game updates (which is every month).

I would much rather have something like an in-game livery manager so I can choose what liveries I want to install, or for modules to only ship with a few liveries and have the rest in optional packs.

They could link to the livery packs on the store page, or even include them when you click on the little module icons on the DCS home screen.

[Exorcet]

I'd also like more skins that fit the carriers/aircraft we have. But as mentioned, space is an issue.

I'm a big proponent of a livery manager that lets users control what skins are installed because I think the base game needs more skins without the hassle of dealing with mods/downloads or oversized installs.

[Minsky]

To put things into perspective: the total size of all "mandatory" (installed for everyone) liveries for all clickable modules currently exceeds 42 Gb.

In many cases liveries occupy more space than the module itself.

The biggest offenders are: F-14A/B (15 Gb for the whole folder with Forrestal - 12 Gb of them are Tomcat skins), Apache, MiG-21, and Viper.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Minsky

[LanceCriminal86]

16 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

For me, I absolutely see the appeal of having liveries that fit current and future assets in game, such that we can replicate historically accurate decks (personally, going forward I'm most interested in representing the upcoming Saratoga circa 1984 for some RSR action on the upcoming Kola map, which means VF-74 and VF-103).

At the same time though, I absolutely support the idea of shipping aircraft with only a few liveries and then provide the rest in optional packs, allowing me to choose what liveries I install. As it stands there are a lot of liveries I either don't use and don't forsee myself using in the forseeable future, as well as liveries I change the name of to make the naming more consistent and less of a mess. The problem is, whenever I delete these liveries to free up some more space on my rapidly filling SSD, they get redownloaded again whenever the game updates (which is every month).

I would much rather have something like an in-game livery manager so I can choose what liveries I want to install, or for modules to only ship with a few liveries and have the rest in optional packs.

They could link to the livery packs on the store page, or even include them when you click on the little module icons on the DCS home screen.

That's been asked about and apparently they don't want to do that, having livery packs as "DLC" that 3rd Party devs can offer up. I guess they don't want to jam up the ED Store with livery packs or something, but IMO that makes a lot of sense versus having to install 3rd party livery DL/management tools of some kind.

The problem right now is we're caught between those screaming about HDD space, those screaming about more MODEX and dynamic MODEX, and those screaming about non-historical skins, while yet others share passion in wanting more cohesive offerings of skins to wings, cruises, and ships. Can't make everyone happy, but at least right now SSDs are cheap.

The existing 1988 Tomcats from VF-31 and VF-11 for example will be great for Kola because that cruise was exactly there, doing TEAM WORK '88 and practicing flying from Fjords and launching strikes and intercepts. But, we'd still need to get a few more in there unless we get more going on the dynamic MODEX front. Adding Saratoga would mean needing to add some VF-74 and 103 in, plus adding to the A+ skins. Same with Ranger and Indi, plus A-6E skins for the AI jets across each. And of course trying to fill out the Supercarriers with cruises that fit the Tomcat and the regions we have in DCS, which finding photos for have proven a huge PITA.

[Exorcet]

54 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

That's been asked about and apparently they don't want to do that, having livery packs as "DLC" that 3rd Party devs can offer up. I guess they don't want to jam up the ED Store with livery packs or something, but IMO that makes a lot of sense versus having to install 3rd party livery DL/management tools of some kind.

Nothing has to be on the store, really nothing should be on the store. The fix is more about adding options than anything else. The list of liveries should only appear in the module manager when downloading. For a given aircraft choose if you want only the default skin, all, or a custom list from what's available.

 

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Nothing has to be on the store, really nothing should be on the store. The fix is more about adding options than anything else. The list of liveries should only appear in the module manager when downloading. For a given aircraft choose if you want only the default skin, all, or a custom list from what's available.

 

Yeah, that would be a perfect solution, during the installation process it asks you which liveries to select, perhaps with some categorisation.

ED still has to store all the official liveries anyway, all we're changing is how they get delivered.

[Harker]

Nothing has to be on the store, really nothing should be on the store. The fix is more about adding options than anything else. The list of liveries should only appear in the module manager when downloading. For a given aircraft choose if you want only the default skin, all, or a custom list from what's available.
 

Yeah, sounds like the best solution. Just have a list in Module Manager, next to the module. Easy to use and everyone's happy.

[LanceCriminal86]

..... That's what I said. What I'm saying is that after asking for exactly that, on the ED side it has sounded like for you to pick stuff out of the module manager it's also tied to the actual store, or something along those lines and it had already been asked about in the past. And they don't want a bunch of livery packs in there, even if it's the 3rd Party devs supplying them free or paid. I wanted to see if we could do dedicated packs for cruises, themes, air wings, conflicts, etc. but it sounds like something else will have to be supplied to manage "official" extra liveries, or those curated by a 3rd Party.