compatibility F-14 and Kuznetsov

[Logan54]

I know that F-14 blue ans Kuz-red, but can it stay on wheel`s stops while I increasing throttle? Unfortunately 14 going through them and broke gears w/o repair...

[felixx75]

15 hours ago, Logan54 said:

I know that F-14 blue ans Kuz-red, but can it stay on wheel`s stops while I increasing throttle? Unfortunately 14 going through them and broke gears w/o repair...

...obviously not...

[r4y30n]

Crazy how much further the nozzle is from the main gear vs the Sukhoi. The 14 doesn’t even fit between the chocks and the JBD.

[SkateZilla]

F-14A/B/D is a CATOBAR Aircraft, 
Kunetsov is not a CATOBAR Carrier.

[Logan54]

What is CATOBAR? I wondered about this wheel chocks, Tomcat gone through them as they non material, just gologramma. Is it so hard to give us opportunity to takeoff as Su-33 from Kuz? I m not asking about take off Su-33 from carrier with steam catapult, because this impossible, but right now we have the bug, arent we?

[Swordsman422]

38 minutes ago, Logan54 said:

What is CATOBAR?

Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery. Meaning the F-14 requires a catapult system to launch off the deck and must recover with arresting cables. Kuznetsov is a STOBAR, or Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery carrier.

It's not a bug. Just the compatibility hasn't been developed, and I wouldn't hold your breath. You're as likely to get CATOBAR-compatible Su-33s as a STOBAR F-14 or F/A-18. The real jets weren't cross-compatible.

 

[Logan54]

4 часа назад, Swordsman422 сказал:

It's not a bug. Just the compatibility hasn't been developed, and I wouldn't hold your breath. You're as likely to get CATOBAR-compatible Su-33s as a STOBAR F-14 or F/A-18. The real jets weren't cross-compatible.

I understand it but...why Kuz let F-14 to land in this way? why Rus carrier rise its strings up, if they not compatible? also why Kuz set its gas diffuser and wheel stopers in up position? All procedures good enough for taking off Su-33, but Tomcat tires not compatible with Kuz wheel stoppers? Any proofs? This system no need special nose wheel construction, just chocks that compartible with only Su-33 because u paid for it and Supercarrier ur money. Why ED not let ppl who want to use Supercarrier with another types? I had FC3 and I not bought Su-33 single, but I like to land carriers, why ED can't do the same code for non carrier ready aircraft? Its not cool to have only 1 way, many ppl likes challenges, so if u can land Supercarrier with MiG-21, u probably good enough for taking off from carrier, arent u?

Probably I need to do video as proof. All was good, I was in position on wheel stoppers, I got permission for take off from Kuz ATC, but after full AB I was broken.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Logan54

[Frosty2124]

The 14 CANNOT, DOES NOT, WILL NOT take off from a kuz, 

 

Heres a link on catobar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CATOBAR

 

If you dont understand the systems we can help you learn but you need to understand, what you are asking/moaning about: 

 

Is IMPOSSIBLE 

[felixx75]

For heaven's sake, accept that the F-14 is not compatible with the Kuznetsov. What's so hard to understand about that?
Why should ED make an aircraft compatible with something that does not exist in reality in their simulation, which considers itself to be particularly accurate and realistic? If you can land an F-15 on a Tarawa in Ace Combat, ok, I have no problem with that, but not in DCS...
An F-16 can't take off from a carrier either...
What comes next? An F-5 that can be equipped with AIM-54? After all, you paid for those weapons through the F-14 and may have paid for the F-5 as well, so why shouldn't ED make it possible to make the F-5 compatible with the AIM-54... 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by felixx75

[r4y30n]

All procedures good enough for taking off Su-33, but Tomcat tires not compatible with Kuz wheel stoppers?

Like I said, in the screenshot you posted the F-14 is clearly too big to fit in the launch position. So yeah, the Tomcat tires are not compatible with the Kuz wheel stoppers.

You can always skip all that and start your roll from the tail end of the boat if you really want to try. Others have done it on the Supercarrier with non-catapult aircraft.

[SkateZilla]

The FM and Data Files for the Tomcat are coded to the CATOBAR system, so STOBAR on Kunetzov is simply ignored by the Aircraft as it's not coded to use that system.

No Tomcat ever took off form a STOBAR Carrier, nor was it ever tested with ramps, so asking the developer to even entertain this,
I'll save everyone's time, its not going to happen.

[Logan54]

18 минут назад, SkateZilla сказал:

The FM and Data Files for the Tomcat are coded to the CATOBAR system, so STOBAR on Kunetzov is simply ignored by the Aircraft as it's not coded to use that system.

this thing I know

 

19 минут назад, SkateZilla сказал:

No Tomcat ever took off form a STOBAR Carrier, nor was it ever tested with ramps

so, if real Tomcat landed real Kuz, probably in parallel universe, and Kuz` command wont help it to TO? not because compartible, just because they not interested 

Ok, I just want to play in DCS, not holywars about CATOBARs and STOBARS

Also weird when u try to land Su-30SM and glideslope and landing speed are good but u blows up because of ED`codes, because Su-30SM not ready for carrier land, okay cap, take it easy

[Frosty2124]

10 minutes ago, Logan54 said:

this thing I know

 

so, if real Tomcat landed real Kuz, probably in parallel universe, and Kuz` command wont help it to TO? not because compartible, just because they not interested 

Yes, please google "US RU Relations"

10 minutes ago, Logan54 said:

Ok, I just want to play in DCS, not holywars about CATOBARs and STOBARS

then please get a job at ED and push for them to make the changes - i wish you the best of luck :)

10 minutes ago, Logan54 said:

Also weird when u try to land Su-30SM and glideslope and landing speed are good but u blows up because of ED`codes, because Su-30SM not ready for carrier land, okay cap, take it easy

the SU-30SM is a MOD and functionality is not guaranteed, furthermore, its not CV capable - please see the attached image

i hope the information provided is enough to help you see reason, failing that, i hear the warthunder tomcat is just unrealistic enough to satiate your fever dreams :)

https://warthunder.com/gb/play4free/?r=sem_10136588133_104105108840_437515024985_kwd-309746131090&placement=&gclid=CjwKCAjwu5yYBhAjEiwAKXk_eLkWC8Ibj8zY72GS9PCR7G3Q73E0VzdkVuEFqLhbhmPuksl1MVnHtRoCRb0QAvD_BwE#/

null

[SkateZilla]

What If's and Alternate Universes don't mean anything, DCS is Programmed and designed in this one.

So you're complaining that when you do things that are outside the simulation's scope that things go wrong?

Stop doing un-realistic things, the sim isn't programmed to recognize or allow tomcats off the Netz, that's the only reason it doesnt work, and that will never change.
The collision model will see it when it lands, but the code behind the holdback chocks does not recognize the tomcat as it's programmed to interact with a catapult.
It has nothing to do with it being hypothetically possible in a alternate universe, and has everything to do with the Module was not programmed to interact with it.

It's not a holywar on CATO vs STO, it's simply the answer. The Tomcat Module is not programmed to interact with the STO System the Kunetzov uses, point blank, period, and it's not going to change, because it's never been done in this reality and likely any other as the aircraft itself is too big to even fit behind the hold backs with the elevator up.

Edited August 25, 2022 by SkateZilla

[RustBelt]

3 hours ago, Logan54 said:

this thing I know

 

so, if real Tomcat landed real Kuz, probably in parallel universe, and Kuz` command wont help it to TO? not because compartible, just because they not interested 

Ok, I just want to play in DCS, not holywars about CATOBARs and STOBARS

Also weird when u try to land Su-30SM and glideslope and landing speed are good but u blows up because of ED`codes, because Su-30SM not ready for carrier land, okay cap, take it easy

You’re confusing reality for computer game physics. The computer game physics, which don’t work anything like real physics, doesn’t comprehend what you’re doing.

These things aren’t Real Physics Simulations. They’re game Simulacra that appear to act the same but are nothing like actual objects interacting with each other in the real world. 

[WarthogOsl]

You could always try a deck run.  That's about equally as realistic.

[RustBelt]

The B will definitely manage a full deck run if the Kuz is steaming into the wind and not broke/on fire for 5 min. 

[lunaticfringe]

1 minute ago, RustBelt said:

The B will definitely manage a full deck run if the Kuz is steaming into the wind and not broke/on fire for 5 min. 

See?  Substantial unrealism already exists in DCS, given the Kuz can run flank into the wind reliably- we don't need to double down with the chocks.  Deck runs it is!

[Logan54]

Thanx for answers) I understand that there more about ED physics then "reality") I started my message with this words about ED code)) so no any misunderstanding there from the 1st time, just want to point out this thing, have a good time, and not answer me)

[Frosty2124]

3 minutes ago, Logan54 said:

Thanx for answers) I understand that there more about ED physics then "reality") I started my message with this words about ED code)) so no any misunderstanding there from the 1st time, just want to point out this thing, have a good time, and not answer me)

whut?

[RustBelt]

36 minutes ago, Logan54 said:

Thanx for answers) I understand that there more about ED physics then "reality") I started my message with this words about ED code)) so no any misunderstanding there from the 1st time, just want to point out this thing, have a good time, and not answer me)

Simple answer, they don’t wanna so too bad. Happy?

[Frosty2124]

Just now, RustBelt said:

Simple answer, they don’t wanna so too bad. Happy?

reading the rest of the thread, he probably won't be

[lunaticfringe]

1 hour ago, Logan54 said:

Thanx for answers) I understand that there more about ED physics then "reality") 

The reality of the situation is that the larger F-14 main gear stance (roughly 2-3 feet by scaled blueprints and mk1 eyeball) is going to have risk of clearance and interference issues with the chocks sized to Su-33/MiG-29s. With about a foot to spare on the outside of each chock with the -33 lined up, there's a probability that, if the Tomcat couldn't catch it, it would be hitting a main gear mount rather than rubber, and that's not going to fly. 

And that's if the Russians could figure out the corrections for the F-14 hook eye distance with their landing area length and optical system; in reality, you have to get it on the boat in flyable condition first. 

[Logan54]

9 часов назад, lunaticfringe сказал:

The reality of the situation is that the larger F-14 main gear stance (roughly 2-3 feet by scaled blueprints and mk1 eyeball) is going to have risk of clearance and interference issues with the chocks sized to Su-33/MiG-29s. With about a foot to spare on the outside of each chock with the -33 lined up, there's a probability that, if the Tomcat couldn't catch it, it would be hitting a main gear mount rather than rubber, and that's not going to fly. 

And that's if the Russians could figure out the corrections for the F-14 hook eye distance with their landing area length and optical system; in reality, you have to get it on the boat in flyable condition first. 

u right its because Tomcat low level wheel mechanization, my mistake

[Logan54]

checked right now TO Su-27 from Kuz, also broken wheels, its a ED code, and no knowledge about STOBAR So finaly I can say that Kuz working only with Su-33

https://youtu.be/vbD1AjgAcpI

Edited August 26, 2022 by Logan54