Today's update changelog

[ShinyMikey]

Just saw today's update changelog from ED...nothing listed for the F-14 at all. I hope it's just that you guys didn't get the info to ED in time.

[IronMike]

Hey @ShinyMikey - I was just about to post something.

Sadly and very unfortunately, our changes for this patch have not shipped this time around due to an unfortunate series of smaller mishaps in the publishing process and miscommunication. Not to be repeated and lesson learned.

This patch was to see, amongst other things, the next larger overhaul in the AIM-54 as well as various other medium and minor features and fixes making it to the F-14 and Viggen. Instead, these improvements will ship in September together with the next series of features we'll get done by then. We'll detail the AIM-54 changes in a post on the forums to give you a preview until then.

Apologies for the non-existent showing.  We set our sights on September and beyond and hope to make it a major, wrinkle-free update for both aircraft.

[edited to explain it a bit more in detail and more accurately.]

Edited August 24, 2022 by IronMike

[Comrade Doge]

2 hours ago, IronMike said:

Hey @ShinyMikey - I was just about to post something.

Sadly and very unfortunately, our changes for this patch have not shipped this time around due to an unfortunate series of smaller mishaps in the publishing process and miscommunication. Not to be repeated and lesson learned.

This patch was to see, amongst other things, the next larger overhaul in the AIM-54 as well as various other medium and minor features and fixes making it to the F-14 and Viggen. Instead, these improvements will ship in September together with the next series of features we'll get done by then. We'll detail the AIM-54 changes in a post on the forums to give you a preview until then.

Apologies for the non-existent showing.  We set our sights on September and beyond and hope to make it a major, wrinkle-free update for both aircraft.

[edited to explain it a bit more in detail and more accurately.]

 

I am sure many are waiting patiently for the next AIM-54 update... And since I am sure the following question would arise in any moment, I will ask it here if I may, if there is any chance that the AIM-54 improvements in question also include the self activation capability of the C variant. Many thanks

[IronMike]

8 minutes ago, Comrade Doge said:

I am sure many are waiting patiently for the next AIM-54 update... And since I am sure the following question would arise in any moment, I will ask it here if I may, if there is any chance that the AIM-54 improvements in question also include the self activation capability of the C variant. Many thanks

They will indeed. We will have an update about the aim54 changes ahead of the next patch.

[Amarok_73]

Any chance for a hotfix? Waiting all summer for finding the meaning of flying the F-14 is "a bit" depressing.

[ShinyMikey]

4 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

Any chance for a hotfix? Waiting all summer for finding the meaning of flying the F-14 is "a bit" depressing.

There is no pressing need for a hotfix. The only thing that I know of that is "broken" is the visual effect for fuel dumping (which doesn't effect actual flying). Everything else is working fine.

[WarthogOsl]

1 hour ago, ShinyMikey said:

There is no pressing need for a hotfix. The only thing that I know of that is "broken" is the visual effect for fuel dumping (which doesn't effect actual flying). Everything else is working fine.

Well, speaking of visual, there is still the matter of the missing VF-14 AB103 texture.

[Amarok_73]

5 hours ago, ShinyMikey said:

There is no pressing need for a hotfix. The only thing that I know of that is "broken" is the visual effect for fuel dumping (which doesn't effect actual flying). Everything else is working fine.

...as long as You're using the F-14 for sightseeing, but I am concern rather about AIM-54 that became useless.

[DSplayer]

2 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

...as long as You're using the F-14 for sightseeing, but I am concern rather about AIM-54 that became useless.

I think the AIM-54 probably got more complicated regarding its usage. And maybe the AIM-54C-Mk47 will find its place with some possible INS and auto-active features.

[draconus]

16 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

Any chance for a hotfix? Waiting all summer for finding the meaning of flying the F-14 is "a bit" depressing.

 

[ShinyMikey]

6 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

...as long as You're using the F-14 for sightseeing, but I am concern rather about AIM-54 that became useless.

I fly the F-14 in multiplayer almost everyday (PVP on the 104th and some PVE on Tactical Panda or Grayflag). The Aim-54 is in no way useless. I get at least 60~70% of my kills with it, sometimes at 80 miles...and sometimes inside 10mile shots with the ACM cover up. I would suggest that the problem may be the shots that you are taking and not the missile itself. Getting the most out of the Aim-54 requires good SA and understanding the parameters you need to be in for a high PK shot. I think if anyone is not flying the Tomcat because they are waiting for some magical update that will make all their missiles score, then you will be waiting a long time and missing out on a lot of enjoyment you could be having. 

[Amarok_73]

42 minutes ago, ShinyMikey said:

I fly the F-14 in multiplayer almost everyday (PVP on the 104th and some PVE on Tactical Panda or Grayflag). The Aim-54 is in no way useless. I get at least 60~70% of my kills with it, sometimes at 80 miles...and sometimes inside 10mile shots with the ACM cover up. I would suggest that the problem may be the shots that you are taking and not the missile itself. Getting the most out of the Aim-54 requires good SA and understanding the parameters you need to be in for a high PK shot. I think if anyone is not flying the Tomcat because they are waiting for some magical update that will make all their missiles score, then you will be waiting a long time and missing out on a lot of enjoyment you could be having. 

We're flying it for more than two years, and with each and every patch that comes out, we notice constant degradation of efeiciency in Phoenixes employment, while our techniques improve due to the practice and knowlege we gather with each hour we spent in this beauty. And like I said, since the recent changes in AIM-54 flight model, the joy was replaced with frustration and awaiting for the patch that will get us back to the times when using the Phoenix was not alike to playing roulette. How can we think seriously about any engagement, when shooting to the plane that is at altitude requiring to pull the nose around 15 degree over the horizon can cause us to shot ourself in the back, or other colleagues flying behind us?
C'mon, You're not the only one who can call yourself the lover of F-14 by HB, but recent decisions about changes in the game engine and module itself really narrowed down the options, and for devoted ones render the hard time to keep with this attitude.

[lunaticfringe]

1 hour ago, Amarok_73 said:

How can we think seriously about any engagement, when shooting to the plane that is at altitude requiring to pull the nose around 15 degree over the horizon can cause us to shot ourself in the back, or other colleagues flying behind us?

HB and the testers have been clearly explaining for months to stop manually lofting, which is what this passage here seems to imply.  Change your method of employment.  Get up to speed, get the altitude you can, level the nose and drop the hammer with a centered dot on the T.  

[Xl-45]

1 hour ago, Amarok_73 said:

We're flying it for more than two years, and with each and every patch that comes out, we notice constant degradation of efeiciency in Phoenixes employment, while our techniques improve due to the practice and knowlege we gather with each hour we spent in this beauty. And like I said, since the recent changes in AIM-54 flight model, the joy was replaced with frustration and awaiting for the patch that will get us back to the times when using the Phoenix was not alike to playing roulette. How can we think seriously about any engagement, when shooting to the plane that is at altitude requiring to pull the nose around 15 degree over the horizon can cause us to shot ourself in the back, or other colleagues flying behind us?
C'mon, You're not the only one who can call yourself the lover of F-14 by HB, but recent decisions about changes in the game engine and module itself really narrowed down the options, and for devoted ones render the hard time to keep with this attitude.

Why do you have to pull the nose at 15 degrees in order to shoot a target that's flying high ? If you are far away enough, engage the target in TWS / PD-STT in level flight, if the target is too close, then use PH Active, that way the missile would not loft at all.
 

Unfortunately, A/A missiles in DCS are pretty lame, you can evade amraams that are fired at point blank range by doing one or two barrel rolls, the phoenix isn't the only missile that has issues, and we can only hope that ED gets done with the missile API in order, for us, to get a better and more realistic Phoenix.

[Kondor77]

4 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

We're flying it for more than two years, and with each and every patch that comes out, we notice constant degradation of efeiciency in Phoenixes employment, while our techniques improve due to the practice and knowlege we gather with each hour we spent in this beauty. And like I said, since the recent changes in AIM-54 flight model, the joy was replaced with frustration and awaiting for the patch that will get us back to the times when using the Phoenix was not alike to playing roulette. How can we think seriously about any engagement, when shooting to the plane that is at altitude requiring to pull the nose around 15 degree over the horizon can cause us to shot ourself in the back, or other colleagues flying behind us?
C'mon, You're not the only one who can call yourself the lover of F-14 by HB, but recent decisions about changes in the game engine and module itself really narrowed down the options, and for devoted ones render the hard time to keep with this attitude.

Yikes. 

Constant degradation? I've set up quick test missions to test all phoenixes in different scenarios. Just now I was able to hit a bomber at 100nm away - with the A mk47. 

My reading of this, is that you guys got way too comfortable with a Phoenix that was clearly over performing in it's first year+ of EA. And now when changes are made to correct it, because you are no longer able to splash a 29 from 60nm away while you're at 5,000 ft - it must be broken. 

[Amarok_73]

4 hours ago, lunaticfringe said:

HB and the testers have been clearly explaining for months to stop manually lofting

If You're so kind, please post the link(s) to such information, clearly stating what's the reason of that, please. Honestly, never meet with such information from any of HB personnel.
And it's nothing like intentional manual lofting, as we're usually flying fast and high, it's just one of the scenarios that can happen in the heat of action.

[DSplayer]

21 minutes ago, Amarok_73 said:

If You're so kind, please post the link(s) to such information, clearly stating what's the reason of that, please. Honestly, never meet with such information from any of HB personnel.
And it's nothing like intentional manual lofting, as we're usually flying fast and high, it's just one of the scenarios that can happen in the heat of action.

Probably more instances it in some of the earlier pages.

[Amarok_73]

Thanks @DSplayer. What I read is that Mike as couple other respondents in this thread confirming, that reaction on "lofting" is actually bug, what is in line with my and my colleagues feelings. So my question about quick fix for this issue (between others) is not as out of sense as some here implies.

[RustBelt]

16 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

...as long as You're using the F-14 for sightseeing, but I am concern rather about AIM-54 that became useless.

Well, it’s still an EARLY ACCESS product so…plan accordingly.

[WarthogOsl]

I don't think I've ever seen an image of a real F-14 launching a Phoenix in anything but level flight.  Who even knows what it would do in real life if you tried lofting it.  That said, even with a bit of nose up attitude, I've never seen the 54 do this straight-up/backwards behavior.  I'd assume you really need to have nose very high to do it.

[RustBelt]

I bet VX-4 knows what it would do. But they ain’t talking.

[Amarok_73]

9 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

nose around 15 degree over the horizon

@WarthogOsl

On the first screenshot You can approximate how high was our nose. Definitely nothing that could qualify as "manual lofting". At this screenshot You can see missile's heading as 352. 17 seconds later (last screenshot) You can see it's heading is opposite (172).

But still it's all out of the point, and I have enough of such a pointless discussion. It always have to get to the point where instead of a factual answer from a competent person, you get a lot of useless comments from fanboys.
And it's bloody tiring to fend off nonsensical attacks that implicitly suggest that you are only a complaining jerk, without understanding for your benefactors being carried under the clouds. My devotion to the module is proved by the history of my purchases, which shows that the F-14 together with Supercarriers three times, once for myself, two for friends with whom we had a lot of fun playing war in this module. And now it is ... as it is.
 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Amarok_73

[WarthogOsl]

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this"......

[lunaticfringe]

1 hour ago, Amarok_73 said:

@WarthogOsl

On the first screenshot You can approximate how high was our nose. Definitely nothing that could qualify as "manual lofting". At this screenshot You can see missile's heading as 352. 17 seconds later (last screenshot) You can see it's heading is opposite (172).
 

My man- if that black spec near the center of the image is the launching F-14, that was a manual loft.  One can draw a near perfect intersecting line based on point of ignition and the nose angle of the jet. 

Now I don't disagree that having a Phoenix go over the shoulder is goofy, but the fundamental problem is that with the limited loft biasing available to the current (see: non AIM-120) Phoenix, the missile essentially adds pitch relative to ownship nose origin when it initiates its loft flyout, roughly in the range of 45 to 60 degrees (ascertained through hundreds of test launches myself from valid loft range).  It's A+B, and it's taking what it calculates as the necessary loft to make the intercept based on when you pulled the trigger with the intention being it a roughly horizon oriented shot- of which this literally doesn't appear to be based on your images.  

And to be fair, as was expressed by their own Tomcat pilot SME, and then reiterated by myself, other HB testers, and their own staff- Phoenix needs to be shot centered and level.  The INS was essentially nonexistent on the A, and while the C had the bonus of monster capability on that front, the weapon still needed to be babied with as quality of a launch arrangement as can be provided for long distance lancing- as much for its RL counterpart as the idiosyncrasies as to what can be modeled in DCS. 

Now you don't have to like that, but such is the situation.  Take the shots as instructed, and you're going to see it work.  And very, very soon- you're going to see a C that is worth carrying, in both variants.  

[RustBelt]

But then they can’t chainsaw like all the cool eSports dorks in the Hornets do.