reported Possible INS Markpoint Bug

[RPY Variable]

Problem 1

a) I update the INS position using some known map static object.

b) Make a markpoint via TGP over some target.

Problem: The markpoint seems to be way off and no where near where it was made. It is my understanding that the markpoint is made relative to the aircraft location. So if the markpoint is made AFTER the INS update, regardless of whether the my position it true to my real position in relation to the earth, the markpoint should be pointing to the same target. 
 

Conclusion: I find it imposible to make a markpoint after a ins update. It seems that the markpoint system gets screwed after a INS update.

Problem 2

In multiplayer I do a "stor HDG" align, and the position of the waypoints I made are always off in relation to the map. If I make a waypoint number 1 on the end of the runway the position is always off by like 200 meters. That is why I make an INS update to have the aicraft true to the map, but then I can't do any markpoints.

I made a short track demonstrating the problem 1.

F16_ins_mkp_possible_bug.trk

Edited September 3, 2022 by RPY Variable

[RPY Variable]

It is as if the markpoint drift of where it point in relation at where it should be, is the same drift of the INS update between the old and the new diamond location.
 

[RuskyV]

I don’t have a track file as it was huge but I’ve seen something similar last night when I was on our server, I had created a mark point using the HMD and then slewing over the target to refine. I tried to MSEL on the mark point to make it active, having had no luck getting it to work I selected mk point 26 under STER button. (Probably user error).
 

However when trying to get the TGP to look at the mark point I noticed that it was off by a few hundred meters or so, I CZed the pod to remove any slew errors but it continued to point further west than the mark point. 
 

It’s worth noting that I had done a stored heading alignment not a full alignment (Persian Gulf), I’m aware it’s not directly related to the error you see but it could be linked to an INS related issue..

[Moonshine]

To fix the markpoint after slewing it (refining its position as you described) you need TMS forward to actually lock the coordinates in. Only then can you press 0 (MSEL) to make it the active steerpoint. 
then exit MARK page, select the tgp as SOI, press TMS aft (CZ) and it should slew the pod to your Markpoint location

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Moonshine

[RPY Variable]

21 hours ago, Moonshine said:

To fix the markpoint after slewing it (refining its position as you described) you need TMS forward to actually lock the coordinates in. Only then can you press 0 (MSEL) to make it the active steerpoint. 
then exit MARK page, select the tgp as SOI, press TMS aft (CZ) and it should slew the pod to your Markpoint location

 

 

 

I'm not refining the markpoint position. I'm updating the INS position with waypoint 1, and only then I am making a markpoint. The problem is that the markpoint is deviated from the position that it was made. 

Try it yourself.
1) Make a waypoint 001 on the end of a runway in the mission editor.
2) Then open the mission and, simulate doing a INS position update by moving the waypoint 001 diamond to the control tower.
3) Make a markpoint on some recognizable location, for example a bridge. And you'll see that when you CZ the markpoint it wont be on the position you made it.

Edited September 5, 2022 by RPY Variable

[Moonshine]

1 hour ago, RPY Variable said:

I'm not refining the markpoint position. I'm updating the INS position with waypoint 1, and only then I am making a markpoint. The problem is that the markpoint is deviated from the position that it was made. 

Try it yourself.
1) Make a waypoint 001 on the end of a runway in the mission editor.
2) Then open the mission and, simulate doing a INS position update by moving the waypoint 001 diamond to the control tower.
3) Make a markpoint on some recognizable location, for example a bridge. And you'll see that when you CZ the markpoint it wont be on the position you made it.

 

you are absolutely right, markpoint is way off. funny enough, i could only seem to create this with the TGP created markpoints. did it with the A-G radar and that one stayed as it should.

here my track showing the issue as described by the OP

Markpoint-after-INS-update_1.trk

[Lord Vader]

Hi @RPY Variable

Problem 1

Your words were a bit confusing. You're not making an INS update, you're making a FIX update.

After careful observation, the issue was replicated and it was reported internally to the team.

Problem 2

I have never had any issues with Stored Heading INS alignment.

Please confirm if you are flying with Auto ACAL on (GPS or BOTH) and not in a server where GPS guidance is not available. 

[skywalker22]

We are talking about this, right: 

 

[RPY Variable]

2 hours ago, 701 - Vader said:

Hi @RPY Variable

Problem 1

Your words were a bit confusing. You're not making an INS update, you're making a FIX update.

After careful observation, the issue was replicated and it was reported internally to the team.

Problem 2

I have never had any issues with Stored Heading INS alignment.

Please confirm if you are flying with Auto ACAL on (GPS or BOTH) and not in a server where GPS guidance is not available. 

Yes.. a FIX update to update the INS position.

Problem 2

I will check in the afternoon but it should not matter because it happens right after alignment is complete. I make a Stored Heading (STOR HDG) align and before I move the aircraft, a waypoint with the aircraft location at start has the diamond at 300m from the actual aircraft location. DDCS server to be specific. 

But just to be sure. What should be the correct behavior in the following situation:
Cold start -> align the aircraft -> make a waypoint 001 on the exact map position where the aircraft has started (without moving the aircraft) -> Where should the waypoint 001 diamond be?

[skywalker22]

Have to try that today... what's confusing me, when Wags does the fix using FCR, all wayoints change, based on the delta. Why is that so? Shouldn't FIX only the waypoint which is currently in use?

[RPY Variable]

10 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

We are talking about this, right: 

 

Sort of.. The FIX position update part works fine. But it seems to mess up the markpoints you make after that. 

[RPY Variable]

17 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

Have to try that today... what's confusing me, when Wags does the fix using FCR, all wayoints change, based on the delta. Why is that so? Shouldn't FIX only the waypoint which is currently in use?

The behavior is correct.

You are not "updating the waypoint" -> you are using the waypoint to to update the INS.

You are telling the aircraft, "you know that bridge that you think is over there... well it is actually over here".

[BIGNEWY]

Thank you all, the main issue here is reported.