GumidekCZ Posted September 3, 2022 Posted September 3, 2022 (edited) When aircraft is releasing flares as pre-emptive countermeasure, all IR seekers in game shouldnt be able to lock on the aircraft, unless most modern seeker I assume, and even after seeker locked, it should have a chance to be decoyed before launch (for human controler in CA, AI units fire missile with ZERO delay after seeker lock). AI units will everytime fire a locked missile and just only after that the well known DCS Lua seeker value ccm_k0 = 0.5 comes to play. null My example of how it shouldnt work with me controling SA-13 equiped with 9M333 missile, engaging F-16 and F-14 defending itself by pre-emptive released flares. They will both be hit by IR missile because of this BUG. If pre-emptive flares are in the FOV as the seeker locks-on then they represent an immediate target in addition to the aircraft. Pre-emptive countermeasures are robust, even against more advanced MANPADs with counter-countermeasure (CCM) capabilities. DCS_PRE-EMPTIVE_FLARES_FAIL.trk Edited September 3, 2022 by GumidekCZ 8
GumidekCZ Posted September 3, 2022 Author Posted September 3, 2022 (edited) Yeah, IR seeker in DCS IGNORES FLARES before missile is launched. Above mentioned BUG proved to be an issue to all IR missiles. IR_seeker_IGNORE_FLARES_BUG.trk Edited September 4, 2022 by GumidekCZ 8
darkman222 Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 I guess then it's the same when getting acquired by an aircraft with heat seekers. Pre flare is just useless until the bandit fires his sidewinder. That's disappointing 1
GumidekCZ Posted May 7, 2023 Author Posted May 7, 2023 (edited) So sad that mil-sim like DCS is getting so low priorities on very important problems like this one. DCS - one of best sims of its kind in the world, with best simulated combat aircrafts, is nowdays still based on just 20 years old simple core (one human generation, cars went to electric propulsion, PC are 10000x more powerful,...), where CHAFF and FLARES are just lottery game, FLAREs only big or small - nothing between, affected only by sun but nothing else from nature environment... That just sad. to have nice polished aircrafts, but behind that shiny mirror we have just guess game - so nicely shown, how ED treats InfraRed world in DCS, just on base of pictures and user reports, not on base of real physics and calculations. Edited May 7, 2023 by GumidekCZ 7
Mad_Shell Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 Yeah still no answer from ED on that most important bug/missing feature... that should be quite high priority given the importance of pre flaring in close range. 3
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted May 9, 2023 ED Team Posted May 9, 2023 Hi all sorry for late reply, we do actually have a report open already for this issue. thank you 1 4 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
GumidekCZ Posted February 21 Author Posted February 21 Ground SAM units IR seekers are still unable to detect pre-emptive FLARES
darkman222 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 Sure, because its only for the F16, F18 and F5... at the ""moment"" ( airquote) 1
Xhonas Posted February 22 Posted February 22 The update is very welcome, however the pre-flare effectiveness is not where it should be yet. While you can decoy a missile pre launch when in front aspect, its impossible to do so in rear aspect. 1
Dragon1-1 Posted February 22 Posted February 22 This is expected. In rear aspect, the missile is looking straight up your tailpipe. There's only so much a flare can do, the engine gives out a lot of heat, and if the missile has a good look at its innards, it won't chase flares. Flares are only good against missiles launched from suboptimal aspects, so beam at most, and only if you're not in burner. 1
Muchocracker Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 14 hours ago, GumidekCZ said: Ground SAM units IR seekers are still unable to detect pre-emptive FLARES If you would have actually read the changelog you'd know it had nothing to do with ground units. It was for for having the in-cockpit behavior match the actual missile behavior. Pre-flaring was already possible after launch, it just wasnt represented to the player on their HUD's Edited February 22 by Muchocracker 1
Xhonas Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 18 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said: This is expected. In rear aspect, the missile is looking straight up your tailpipe. There's only so much a flare can do, the engine gives out a lot of heat, and if the missile has a good look at its innards, it won't chase flares. Flares are only good against missiles launched from suboptimal aspects, so beam at most, and only if you're not in burner. This couldn't be more far from the truth. Flares burn way hotter than the engines in mil power, with flare temperature peaking at an average of 1000-1100 °C, this generates a stronger IR signature than the aircraft being targeted. If flares are dropped in pairs or triplets the effectiveness should increase even more. The reality is that pre flaring will be extremely effective in shielding you against IR missiles at any aspect, even against the most modern dual band seeker missiles like the Aim-9X. Versus the 9M in DCS, you can flare it very reliably after it has been launched, so it makes no sense that it can't be decoyed pre launch by pre flaring. Edited February 22 by Xhonas 2
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