correct as-is Possible bug in the AGM 88 missile range (HAD System)

[Silver_]

I have no idea if this is correct or not but since these are two different ways of launching the same missile, AGM88, this behavior has surprised me. I will explain:
When I'm in HAD mode with the AGM88 normally a white oval appears indicating the missile's maximum firing range, so far everything is normal. But if I switch to WPN, POS trigger mode and select PB (Prebrief) and then switch to HAD, to my amazement, the range oval disappears!!! I think it shouldn't be like that because these are two completely different shooting modes and the options in one shouldn't affect the other. I hope you clarify this for me.

 

PD: If I put any other mode like EOM or RUK in WPN, everything is back to normal in HAD mode. THX

Edited September 13, 2022 by Silver_

[Tholozor]

Did you mean HAS mode? HAD is the targeting display for the HTS.

HAS mode (HARM As Sensor) is a direct attack mode for the HARM using the receiver in the missile's nose as the sensor. No range data is provided to the missile, so no range cues should be present.

HAD (HARM Attack Display) is be used to generate a SPI for a position attack mode for the HARM (RUK, PB, or EOM).

Edited September 12, 2022 by Tholozor

[Silver_]

Sorry my friend I meant HAD mode instead of HAS. I corrected/edited my post. Thx
I am familiar with the HAD mode of the AGM 88 and that is what I am referring to it when I talk about the range oval problem.

RUK, PB and EOM is refered to "POS mode" in WPN page.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Silver_

[Tholozor]

3 hours ago, Silver_ said:

Sorry my friend I meant HAD mode instead of HAS.

Again, HAD is not a 'mode' for the HARM. HAD is a display.

[D4n]

45 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

Again, HAD is not a 'mode' for the HARM. HAD is a display.

And as previously stated, it'd make sooo much more sense if "HAD" 'd be renamed to "HAM", harm attack mode. Because the actual display is actually called MFD (or MFCD)...

[SickSidewinder9]

Nobody does acronyms like the US Military.  Ultimate Alphabet Soup enthusiasts.  Civilian bureaucracy is pretty good too.  Especially since our Federal System means there are multiple levels of Federal, State, county, municipal governments.

That's why the plane has labels like it does.

[AlexCaboose]

On 9/13/2022 at 12:13 PM, D4n said:

And as previously stated, it'd make sooo much more sense if "HAD" 'd be renamed to "HAM", harm attack mode. Because the actual display is actually called MFD (or MFCD)...

That wouldn’t actually make any sense at all. The mode is POS, and the submode is generally EOM. It’s called the HAD because it’s displaying the attack profile of the HARM and various targetable emitters, their general locations, the emitter status, and accuracy of the fix. You are still shooting in a POS submode, so the mode doesn’t change.

[D4n]

15 minutes ago, AlexCaboose said:

That wouldn’t actually make any sense at all. The mode is POS, and the submode is generally EOM. It’s called the HAD because it’s displaying the attack profile of the HARM and various targetable emitters, their general locations, the emitter status, and accuracy of the fix. You are still shooting in a POS submode, so the mode doesn’t change.

Oh, then "HP" or "HDP" would be way better, "HARM (display) page", alright!

[Silver_]

I do not care what it is called or should be called, what I know is that a configuration made in POS should not affect the HAD. They are two completely different forms of launch.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Silver_

[AlexCaboose]

44 minutes ago, Silver_ said:

I do not care what it is called or should be called, what I know is that a configuration made in POS should not affect the HAD. They are two completely different forms of launch.

 

They're not though. HAD is just the display. The launch mode, as I was mentioning earlier, is still going to be a submode of POS. When you go to the WPN Video page and select PB, you are changing the mode the HARM is shooting in. HAD is just displaying that change and will give you a much more narrow launch window, because it's meant to be used against a pre-briefed target. In PB, you are giving the HARM a terminal search profile of 20nm radius if I'm not mistaken, which is huge. EOM that terminal search range is 5nm radius. 

http://www.ausairpower.net/USN/HARM-Profiles-S.jpg

That picture provides a good example of the flight profiles of the HARM.  EOM is the most accurate flight profile.
 

Edited September 15, 2022 by AlexCaboose

[Silver_]

Quote

2 hours ago, AlexCaboose said:

When you go to the WPN Video page and select PB, you are changing the mode the HARM is shooting in.

 

I totally agree but I remind you that the HAD screen shows data from the POD HTS mounted on the side of the aircraft and not from the missile's predisposition, in fact the HAD will show a range according to the type of anti-radiation missile mounted since the on-board computer knows perfectly what type of missile has been equipped and not from the preset data in other modes. What's more, when you program the missile in WPN (POS) you are programming part of the missile's behavior based on avionics and inertial positioning data and part is managed by the missile itself, in fact, according to HANDBOOK, the mode in which it is completely independent of the avionics and managed exclusively by the missile is the HAS mode (it is the most primitive/primary way of management) the POS mode, excuse me for saying so, but many parameters do not reside in the missile and are stored so that others can represent them displays such as HAD. The HAD is based exclusively on the sensors mounted on the POD HTS (AN/ASQ-213). So it doesn't make sense for the range to go narrow when changing it in POS mode.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Silver_

[AlexCaboose]

1 hour ago, Silver_ said:

I totally agree but I remind you that the HAD screen shows data from the POD HTS mounted on the side of the aircraft and not from the missile's predisposition, in fact the HAD will show a range according to the type of anti-radiation missile mounted since the on-board computer knows perfectly what type of missile has been equipped and not from the preset data in other modes. What's more, when you program the missile in WPN (POS) you are programming part of the missile's behavior based on avionics and inertial positioning data and part is managed by the missile itself, in fact, according to HANDBOOK, the mode in which it is completely independent of the avionics and managed exclusively by the missile is the HAS mode (it is the most primitive/primary way of management) the POS mode, excuse me for saying so, but many parameters do not reside in the missile and are stored so that others can represent them displays such as HAD. The HAD is based exclusively on the sensors mounted on the POD HTS (AN/ASQ-213). So it doesn't make sense for the range to go narrow when changing it in POS mode.

 

I'm well aware of where the data for the HAD comes from. When in PB, you get a narrow cone, you do not get the ovoid. That's consistent with other simulators out there.

[Silver_]

It is not consistent when dealing with different launch systems.