Dynamic Trim Update with GlovePIE & PPJoy - See Link

[Ramstein]

I followed the following instructions, When I enable GlovePie (and everything) and set my X52 Pro on Black Shark. I start Black Shark and my computer crashes and reboots! :cry:(yes, I did a complete calibration too). Also, I cannot use the Black Shark Profile that is included as my Profiles are newer and are*.pro (yours is Blackshark 1.dat). But is says that file is not necessary. My X52 Pro Profiles are all new with all the latest software and drivers.

 

Here are the directions I followed to setup everything:

 

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WHAT YOU NEED TO INSTALL:

 

-DCS: Blackshark

-PPJoy

-Carl Kenner's GlovePIE

For PPJoy and GlovePIE, you can either download my larger AVsim uploads that already include them, or go to their respective sites.

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FILE PLACEMENT:

 

Put the Blackshark 1 dat in your saitek software folder. Not necessary, but I included it.

Put the PIE files called Calibration and Blackshark DTU Multi in your GlovePIE profile directory.

Both LUA files go in your internal DCS profiles directory, which is somewhere inside of config/aircraft/ka-50/joystick, I think. I'm actually not totally sure if these are the correct ones, since I don't know where they saved. This is what was in the folder.

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PPJoy:

 

After you have installed it, open Configure Joysticks and ADD a new Virtual Analog Joystick with 7 axis. See the next section for matching to mine.

From time to time you may need to go back in there after booting up your computer to reinitialize it by selecting this virtual joystick, clicking on Mapping, and going through the modifying wizard. Don't actually change anything, just hit next repeatedly, and then finish for Windows to recognize it again if it's not.

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CALIBRATION REQUIRED:

 

There is a custom GlovePIE script for the Windows calibration process required. Open it in GlovePIE and hit "Run". Go calibrate your PPJoy virtual joystick in the Windows Control Panel - Game Controllers. Select it and then Properties. The script must be running first.

PPJoy1.Analog0 = Joystick1.x

PPJoy1.Analog1 = Joystick1.y

PPJoy1.Analog2 = Joystick1.z

PPJoy1.Analog3 = Joystick1.xrot //side

PPJoy1.Analog4 = Joystick1.yrot //top

PPJoy1.Analog5 = Joystick1.zrot //twist

PPJoy1.Analog6 = Joystick1.slider

Double check all the red bars afterwards that are onscreen.

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BLACKSHARK DTU MULTI:

 

Once you have everything up and ready, "Run" this in GlovePie. There are three control modes cycled through by doubleclicking joystick1.button6 (pinkie on X52):

-Manual Trim

-Standard Dynamic Trim

-Flight Director Dynamic Trim

You will hear GlovePIE saying in your computer's voice which one you've switched to.

---btw I don't get any GlovePie voice...

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Edited February 6, 2009 by Ramstein

[Reticuli]

Is that the old instructions or the new ones? I've corrected the first post. Or use the readme.

 

All you have to apparently do is rename the .dat file .pro, but it's just one button. Just go into your Profiler and assign the key for centering the shkval to the rotary wheel press on the throttle. On the X52 that key is never recognized natively inside sims, so I had to do it in Profiler. Not necessary, but there you go.

 

Activate your Windows voice and make sure it can fuction. If you don't have MS Office, then you may need to go to Microsoft's site to download the correct free voice stuff. It's not GlovePIE's voice, rather it's using Windows. Do it in your XP control panel. I assumed most people had done that for some other program. X-Plane only uses that for its ATC, so I guess I'd done that already. I use a Microsoft female voice Mary, though I've been trying to get the Natasha Russian accent one to work that is free from another company...at least I'm guessing it would have a slight accent considering it's meant for Russian pronunciation. Anyway, when you run the script you should be able to double click the pinkie fast and each time Windows should say what you've switched to. Do that with just GlovePIE running and not in Blackshark. If it doesn't work that has nothing to do with the script or Blackshark; either GlovePIE doesn't like your PC or your Windows voice is messed up.

 

You've loaded both LUAs inside Blackshark? One assigns for PPJoy, the other for the Saitek.

 

I have no clue why Blackshark would crash on you. I've done this on two completely different computers and they've both done it flawlessly. One's XP Pro and the other's XP Home.

 

Try clicking on the variables tab in GlovePIE when the script is running to see what each of the three modes you cycle through does. Notice how in manual trim mode without single-pinkie presses to trim it, the axiis zero out when you release the stick.

 

Make sure in Blackshark you have the red control panel thing up by hitting r.ctrl+enter. That will show you where your trim is at. When you first get it, always cycle completely though all the modes just to clear previous trim states

 

The first thing I do when I get in the pit is cycle through once and get to flight director mode on the PIE, then turn on flight director in the helo, then master arm to on, then turn control panel on, then fps yellow text on with r.ctrl+pause, then I switch the head wobble off and go to no cockpit mode just to maximize fps. And I put the Arbis on Arc.

 

Oh, and when you're in Blackshark if you notice when not in manual trim mode your center play on the stick causes the red control diamond to move, you need to make your deadzones bigger in your stick control settings.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Reticuli

[Ramstein]

for now, I have removed PPJoy, Glovepie, stopped with working with skins, and have gone back to only BS and Saitek controls. I need a break and rest from trying extra software and things... Too much in too little of time...

:joystick:

[heloguy]

So, let me get this straight...this allows you to hold the stick in a certain postion for a moment, and then it stays there when you relax pressure, almost as if you pressed and released the trim switch quickly? Not really like any trim system I've ever seen. Never been around a Comanche or any other side stick setup, but all of the conventional control setups I've seen in helos are pretty much setup like they have it in Black Shark. Granted, I've only worked on or flown about eight helos, and there are many more.

 

From reading the manual, though, and my experience with the same type of trim system, Black Shark seems to have it as close as possible without spending thousands on a control setup with a magnetic brake built in. Most helicopter trim systems are made to basically hold the controls where you set them. The more complicated ones with an AFCS computer actually do things like rate dampening, airspeed hold, heading hold, (if you have an afcs servo on the collective channel) altitude hold, etc. They still require the pilot to basically setup the aircraft how he wants it while holding the trim switch, and then releasing it. You can usually make fine adjustments from there.

 

There are some helos that will actually fly a flight plan beginning from a hover, fly the approach, and either terminate to a hover or land. I believe the Black Shark does this in game in Flight Director mode if I'm not mistaken, although I never use it. I don't like the rely on a computer to fly for me.

 

At any rate, having the trim set automatically without you having to hold or push the cyclic trim release isn't very realistic, but whatever makes your sim experience more satisfying.

[Reticuli]

You don't really have to hold it any more than when bank a fixed wing aircraft.

 

Attitude Command/ Attitude Hold is the way all helos with sidestick joysticks -- academic/military simulated, prototype, production, or otherwise -- do it as their primary flight law. This is a crude but fairly effective implementation of it.

 

Since I don't have a pole cyclic or force feedback joystick, this to me is a more realistic and natural way to control a helo sim with a conventional joystick...since that's how helos with conventional joysticks do it and they do so for good reason. It does not prevent you from using manual trim, but offers it as one of three modes.

 

FD in Blackshark just gives you the route flying & autopilot cueing symbology in the HUD and switches the automated hold channels to dampening only, albeit weak rate dampening.

[GuntiNDDS]

what does this script do ?

 

didnt get a clue from the instructions-post.

 

thanks.

[CyBerkut]

I'd recommend reading post #s 21 & 22 in this thread.

[McVittees]

Wow! I had no idea about this mod! I'm definitely going to try this one out at the weekend! One question: it's not goin to remap any of my X-52 buttons or axis is it?

[Frakin Toasters]

Sucks for those of us that have Vista 64 and can't use that outdated PPJoy program

[Reticuli]

Is there some other program out there that can do what PPJoy can that works with Vista? The scripts themselves are for GlovePIE. I'm just not aware of other "virtual joystick" systems out there. I wonder if there's some way of doing it natively from GlovePIE without PPJoy...

[kraszus]

Well...I messed about for a long time on Vista and Win7 trying to get this to work. Finally I bought a new HD and installed XP on it..have now got it up and running finally :)

 

1) I've noticed that when I moved the joystick and then let it come back to centre, the trim diagram shows that the joystick is not centred (it's actually showing as though I'm pushing the joystick forward a little). Anything I need to tweak? Or is this normal?

 

2) With patch 1.01, do I need to revert to the old trim method in the config file, or use the existing (v1.01) method?

 

Either way, great work Reticuli!

Edited September 17, 2009 by kraszus

[Boberro]

I read all again and still don't get it.

 

Am I wrong or it helps to fly simple you dont have to use yout T key as trimmer?

 

How to install it?

[kraszus]

I read all again and still don't get it.

 

Am I wrong or it helps to fly simple you dont have to use yout T key as trimmer?

 

How to install it?

 

I believe the script automatically trims the aircraft for you. Just follow the installation instructions on Page 1, Boberro - I got it running using trial and error :)

 

Here is a track of me taking off and trying to land at opposite end of the runway, using Reticulis GlovePIE script, FD on and using the original trim method. As you can see i use the cheat method to start engines, etc (Windows Key + Home)....I haven't mastered any of the avionics yet - just trying to get a feel for flying the aircraft.

 

You should be able to see the trim diagram in the lower left of the screen - it doesn't recenter when I re-center the joystick - not sure if this is correct or not.

 

The aircraft's nose sometimes bobs up and down, but is more controllable than without the GlovePIE script. For the most part, I can fly the aircraft somewhat better using this script - although as you can see I am a diabolical pilot. Things have come a long way since Microprose's Gunship :P

 

save1.trk

Edited September 17, 2009 by kraszus

[Boberro]

I believe the script automatically trims the aircraft for you. Just follow the installation instructions on Page 1, Boberro - I got it running using trial and error :)

 

Here is a track of me taking off and trying to land at opposite end of the runway, using Reticulis GlovePIE script, FD on and using the original trim method. As you can see i use the cheat method to start engines, etc (Windows Key + Home)....I haven't mastered any of the avionics yet - just trying to get a feel for flying the aircraft.

 

You should be able to see the trim diagram in the lower left of the screen - it doesn't recenter when I re-center the joystick - not sure if this is correct or not.

 

The aircraft's nose sometimes bobs up and down, but is more controllable than without the GlovePIE script. For the most part, I can fly the aircraft somewhat better using this script - although as you can see I am a diabolical pilot. Things have come a long way since Microprose's Gunship :P

 

 

I watched track, cool :D

 

 

OK I use Cyborg Evo.

 

I did what is needed, and it only resets trim and do nothing more. What Did I do wrong?

Edited September 18, 2009 by Boberro

[Boberro]

BUMP :D

[Reticuli]

Krazsus: Be gentle and show finesse. And show some patience. The aircraft doesn't respond instantly, like real life.

 

Boberro:

 

Do you have the PPJoy axis assigned in Blackshark? They are virtual axiis, so if the sim is only seeing the real saitek ones, it won't do anything except talk.

 

You can also check the script's variable values after you've activated it to make sure they are changing and the modes work. You can also go into windows joystick callibration and look at the PPJoy axiis to make sure they are moving around properly, staying put, and mostly resetting when you cycle through. Neither debugs the interface with the sim, but ensures the script, GlovePIE, and PPJoy are o.k.

 

I don't have the patch installed yet, so I assume you need to have the old trim style on in the configs.

 

If you cycle through all the virtual dynamic trim modes (three of them) often there will be a little bit of trim left over...usually forward. I forget why it does that since I haven't flown BS in the last few months, but it's benign and all you have to do is cycle through again. The more you have the stick centered when you cycle completely through, the less it does this...I think. Been a while.

 

Now, if when you first get in and have just turned on the script (there is no prior trim) the red joystick/trim box on screen shows it's off center, then you need to callibrate everything and/or make a larger deadzone in the Saitek control panel. If the stick is applying any noticeable input and one of the trim update modes is active, it will slowly add trim without you knowing.

 

And when in doubt, redo it and follow the instructions step by step. I've installed it half a dozen times and the only issues are from skipping something.

 

Nice to see AVsim is back up!

Edited September 19, 2009 by Reticuli

[Boberro]

Do you have the PPJoy axis assigned in Blackshark? They are virtual axiis, so if the sim is only seeing the real saitek ones, it won't do anything except talk.

 

Yes in BS options I have same as on real joy. But in didn't recognize moves, I need to select them from list.

 

You can also check the script's variable values after you've activated it to make sure they are changing and the modes work. You can also go into windows joystick callibration and look at the PPJoy axiis to make sure they are moving around properly, staying put, and mostly resetting when you cycle through. Neither debugs the interface with the sim, but ensures the script, GlovePIE, and PPJoy are o.k.

In Control Panel Virtual joy is not responding on saitek moves.

Even after I ran calibration script.

 

I don't have the patch installed yet, so I assume you need to have the old trim style on in the configs.

I unchecked "central position trim mode" in Options menu, hope it is that.

 

BTW: When I go to GUI tab in GlovePie and click detect Output it detects Virtual Joy, is it ok?

 

Overall I did:

 

1. moved Blackshar and Calibation PIE files to GlovePIE directory.
   
2. Saitek52.lua and PPjoy.lua copied to <root>\Config\Input\Aircrafts\ka-50\joystick
   
3. Created joy in PPJoy, 7 axis.
   
4. In GlovePIE opened calibration.pie and went to Control Joystick Panel, but there it didn't recognized moves.
   
5. Activated old style trim system
   
6. Run Blackshark.pie but nothing except sound and trim reset happens.
   

 

EDIT:

 

OK now it recognizes moves (my mistake was creating Virtual Joy no 5 than 1...), however in game it is so crazy! I mean trim is flickering all time (jumps from position to position, you know it looks like someone is moving second joy together with me - on kraszus track his trim is smooth). Don't know what I did wrong, but flying with this is worse than before.

 

Did u try use AutoHotkey? I use it for various scripts and I tried to do autotrim script too, by simple pressing T key in500 miliseconds intervals, but it didn't work as I suspected :S Maybe I don't know the coorect script. Howevre AH is also worth to bring it up :)

Edited September 20, 2009 by Boberro

[Reticuli]

I'm telling you, if you follow the instructions from beginning to end IT WILL WORK. It's hard to fix it with patchwork, so when in doubt try uninstalling PPJoy and going through all the steps again. I just reinstalled the EECH stuff and it worked perfectly first attempt. Match the pic with the 7 axis virtual controller, etc. It shouldn't jump around or anything. Callibration? Saitek deadzone check in the control panel. Remember, step by step. Once you've done it all, bam! It'll work.

[Reticuli]

I tried installing everything again. The only thing I need to add is you have to go into options and look at the buttons and the axis assignments. You might even need to "load" both the saitek and ppjoy lua files. Not sure. I did that anyway just for the hell of it. But after I went into that options menu, either the "loading" or the clicking on and selecting of the axis screen drop down box assigned everything properly. So just do both to make certain. After I did that, all the axiis are showing up and working correctly.

[Boberro]

I tried again, worse flying than manual trim. It seems it is not for me then.

[Reticuli]

I tried again, worse flying than manual trim. It seems it is not for me then.

 

If it's working correctly, you should be able to put the profile in "manual trim" (hint: it's that way when it's first activated, or you can cycle through to hear it confirm). Then the pinkie should just act as the trim button and you have it functioning as if you hadn't done anything at all in GlovePIE and PPJoy. You get ordinary response and trimming. No different than without it. No lag. No decrease in resolution or fine response. Zero strange happenings. When you do this, does it still go crazy? If so, that's an indication something's not right with how it's been set up. Don't judge the dynamic trim aspect until you're certain the manual mode is actually behaving properly.

 

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The only serious problem was associated with the issue of getting PPJoy installed on modern systems, which the author of it has since resolved. There are some minor niggles:

 

Clear Trim sometimes doesn't work properly for some reason in Blackshark 2 from the script. This might necessitate hitting Ctrl T on your keyboard manually when you first get into the helo.

 

And the new trim option ED added might prevent DCS world from recognizing the virtual joystick in the background. So make sure that option where DCS ignores your stick until it's centered back is not on. And make sure the helo's own trim state is cleared.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Reticuli