New AM5 build on the way

[skypickle]

so how goes it? Did you solve the problems?

[clayvt]

Not entirely I don’t think. 
Asus still has not put out a new bios update so I decided to look at all the other MB manufacturers and AsRock was pumping out updates all through October into Nov. 

so I ordered a steel legend x670e mb and it got here on Tuesday. 
 

I quickly swapped the mb’s and got the system up and running. 
I left it for several hours at idle and it was fine. Loaded up non-vr DCS and let a quick mission play out for about 24hrs. No issues. 
then I got vr up and running and mid-way through an Apache flight it happened. 
screen went black, but still had sound and the GPU fans ramped to 100%. 
 

then last night I got back on and was able to do 2 instant action missions in VR. One in the Apache the other in the -18. Total of about 2.5 hours. No issues. 
 

I turned on the fps counter for both. 
The Apache was in Syria flying to some SA-10 site. 85-90 fps the whole time. 
 

F-18 flight was in Persian Gulf just basically a tour around the UAE 85-90 fps. 
 

this is still using the same medium settings I had before so I could compare. I have not tweaked the Nvidia settings or used open car yet but It was buttery smooth. The HMD in the -18 seemed much more crisp and smooth. It was weird. 

[Thinder]

Funny how the table is turning between Intel and AMD, but I wonder why chosing the 7900x over an 5800X 3D?

Of course frequency is important but in gaming cache might well beat it most of the time, with Cl 14 3600 B-die RAM, my gain over the 5600X is as following:

You can see that the cache, bounded with low latency RAM gives you excellent results on all channels, the Graphics score gain of 18.91% is particularly noticeable, not something you'll get out of a Zen3, you'll need the 3D cache for that.

Settings are 4K MSAA X 2, same GTX 1080Ti, compared to the 5600X with CPU and GPU boosted.

RAM was G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) Cl 14 DDR4 3200Cl14 now G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) Cl14 DDR4 3600.

 

  

On 10/2/2022 at 1:40 AM, Bossco82 said:

It will be very interesting to see how this compares to the 5900x and DDR4. Bitmaster is right there, the DDR5 does not scale well or have guaranteed compatibility when using x4 sticks as we have seen so far with Intel Z690. How it works with AMD's new design is yet to be seen as far as I know. I would have got 2x32gb sticks just to be sure.

Good info, it kind of validate my decision to wait for better die for DDR5, right now the latency is just way too high to get the equivalent of the Cl14 kits.

Still with your GSkill?

The Zen 4 will give a faster Infinity Fabric frequency, 3000MHz vs 2000VHz for the Zen 3, as well as two modes, low latency and bandwidth, but even if AMD are puting a lot of efforts to make it work, the RAM industry still don't have the die to equal the low letancy best used by the Ryzen CPUs with DDR5.

They have to put the latency higher in order to keep their sticks stable, meaning the range of timing is nowhere near what AMD players need.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Thinder

[Cavemanhead]

Even the 7700X beats the 5800x3d...  especially on min fps.  No, it's certainly not a huge margin but most who move to AM5 are those who were very early in AM4 or not at all.  AM5 will give a least 3 years of upgrades and the X series like the 7700X or 7900X will soon have at least one X3d L3 Vcache variant to boost performance in gaming similar to X58003dx by 15-25% (a few months out yet).  Not quote sure where the 2 x 16 GB vs 4 x 16 arguments for DDR5 come into play...  Maybe for Intel but I have not seen that specific complaint for AMD.  Does anyone have links to that current potential (and assumed temporary) constraint?

[BitMaster]

You don't need to worry about 4x 16 with DDR5, there is no such kit yet.

Actually, the 2 biggest German online shops have no kit at all with 4 modules and nothing bigger than 64GB for DDR5, I doubt it's different elsewhere.

I wonder why ? 256GB should be possible, 128GB should be available since launch and the worst is that only 2 modules should be used to keep things stable,

hence you don't see 4er kits out yet.

Maybe early 2024..

 

[clayvt]

On 11/26/2022 at 6:36 PM, Thinder said:

Funny how the table is turning between Intel and AMD, but I wonder why chosing the 7900x over an 5800X 3D?

Of course frequency is important but in gaming cache might well beat it most of the time, with Cl 14 3600 B-die RAM, my gain over the 5600X is as following:

You can see that the cache, bounded with low latency RAM gives you excellent results on all channels, the Graphics score gain of 18.91% is particularly noticeable, not something you'll get out of a Zen3, you'll need the 3D cache for that.

Settings are 4K MSAA X 2, same GTX 1080Ti, compared to the 5600X with CPU and GPU boosted.

RAM was G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) Cl 14 DDR4 3200Cl14 now G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) Cl14 DDR4 3600.

 

  

Good info, it kind of validate my decision to wait for better die for DDR5, right now the latency is just way too high to get the equivalent of the Cl14 kits.

Still with your GSkill?

The Zen 4 will give a faster Infinity Fabric frequency, 3000MHz vs 2000VHz for the Zen 3, as well as two modes, low latency and bandwidth, but even if AMD are puting a lot of efforts to make it work, the RAM industry still don't have the die to equal the low letancy best used by the Ryzen CPUs with DDR5.

They have to put the latency higher in order to keep their sticks stable, meaning the range of timing is nowhere near what AMD players need.

 

I have more $ than sense? (Usually when I’m drunk ordering) Lol

but seriously, I decided to move to the AM5 platform for upgrade ability. I had been on AM4 since 2700 series. I am planning on getting one of the 7,000 series x3d chips when they are available. and sell my now extra MB and 7900x to my brother. 
 

as far as the initial problem I “think” it might now be resolved and it was something very, very stupid. 
 

I switched USB ports. 
 

I have a buddy staying with me who suggested it might be the reverb G2. 
I had an issue with the prior system of the display going black for 2-5 min but then coming back. Other users reported the volume being too high could cause an extra power draw. So I solved that by keeping the headset volume below 90%. 
 

the screen going black but not coming back could be a similar issue. 
 

On the new setup I stopped using the c port and have it in a dedicated usb 3.0 type A port and haven’t had any issues for about 48hrs. 
it’s ridiculous that the ports can supply up to 60W for phone fast charging but not enough power for VR headsets?!
 

[Thinder]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:40 AM, Bossco82 said:

It will be very interesting to see how this compares to the 5900x and DDR4. Bitmaster is right there, the DDR5 does not scale well or have guaranteed compatibility when using x4 sticks as we have seen so far with Intel Z690. How it works with AMD's new design is yet to be seen as far as I know. I would have got 2x32gb sticks just to be sure.

I think Power supply is the first thing to check, I burn enough HDs in the past to know it, I get myself a nice CORSAIR  850W to keep some headroom...

For the AMD future 7,000 series x3d, the ball remains firmly in the die manufacturers side, AMD have been making enough efforts to make sure the actual RAM would work with their CPUs but their architecture remains biased toward lower latency, so unless someone come with the equivalent of B-die for the DDR5, we'll have to wait before we can benefit from the extra speed.

It's infortunate but also the reason why I rarely buy premium stuff and wait for the indutries to be harmonized when it comes to compatibility and performances.

[Bossco82]

I would not be surprised that your HP Reverb might be a problem. I have come across x2 sets now that have connection problems, especially on AM4 X570. I know your on AM5 but the problems could be similar.

I also came across something regarding V-Bios on the 4090 having compatibility problems with certain AM5 motherboards. I think it was a Jay2Cents video tbh, check some of his latest including AM5 or the 4090 if you have the time. I dont know if it was solved but a lack of maturity in the Bios was the culprit.

Even though I have a system performing very well in DCS I must admit I find the same upgrade tempting. I will probably wait until 7000 series x3d chips become available.

[Thinder]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:14 PM, Bossco82 said:

I would not be surprised that your HP Reverb might be a problem. I have come across x2 sets now that have connection problems, especially on AM4 X570. I know your on AM5 but the problems could be similar.

I also came across something regarding V-Bios on the 4090 having compatibility problems with certain AM5 motherboards. I think it was a Jay2Cents video tbh, check some of his latest including AM5 or the 4090 if you have the time. I dont know if it was solved but a lack of maturity in the Bios was the culprit.

Even though I have a system performing very well in DCS I must admit I find the same upgrade tempting. I will probably wait until 7000 series x3d chips become available.

Well, I got my RAM thanks to a refund for my G2 which packed up, connection issues too.

Thinking of it now, it was a blessing in disguise because my system was and now is even more performant than if I had kept my Crucial Cl16, of course I haven't played DCS since because I simply don't like its complexity in 2D plus I find it hard to keep sight of my targets using knobs, reason why I went VR in the first place.

Hopefuly the Pimax Crystal won't die on me and I will enjoy relearning the basics on my Mirage 2000C and F/A-18C, good thing X-Mass came early and I am able to afford an upgrade after only two years, but even with the same old GPU, a gain like the one I got from this new RAM/CPU combo guaranty me a proper 4K VR experience...

 

  

On 11/28/2022 at 6:16 AM, clayvt said:

I have a buddy staying with me who suggested it might be the reverb G2.

I had the first release of G2 and Im sure they had some problems, also the 3D support by Microsoft was mediocre, I'm pleased to be out of this to be honnest.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Thinder

[clayvt]

So far so good it seems. 
been on for several hours with no black screen issues over the last week. 
 

 

[Terrorvogel]

I´m very slowly building a new rig too with waiting for Zen 4 with V-cache and bought this ram some days ago for a good price with Hynix A-Die:

Trident Z5 Neo
DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V
64GB (2x32GB)
AMD EXPO
G.Skill F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5N
Date of Manufacture    2022/11/24

Hynix A-Die seems much better in overclocking than the good M-Dies what i have found out so far.

Code Number: 0R56KXS820A (which you can see on the backside sticker of the module that can be seen through a window in package of ram - so no need to open)
That 20A at the end of this codenumber means "2" for Hynix and "A" for A-Die. What i have read is that all newer G.Skill rams will have this better A-Dies.

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Terrorvogel said:

I´m very slowly building a new rig too with waiting for Zen 4 with V-cache and bought this ram some days ago for a good price with Hynix A-Die:

Trident Z5 Neo
DDR5-6000 CL30-40-40-96 1.40V
64GB (2x32GB)
AMD EXPO
G.Skill F5-6000J3040G32GX2-TZ5N
Date of Manufacture    2022/11/24

Hynix A-Die seems much better in overclocking than the good M-Dies what i have found out so far.

Code Number: 0R56KXS820A (which you can see on the backside sticker of the module that can be seen through a window in package of ram - so no need to open)
That 20A at the end of this codenumber means "2" for Hynix and "A" for A-Die. What i have read is that all newer G.Skill rams will have this better A-Dies.

It should be solid ram for AM5 at the current state of things, you can probably get it down form CL34 to CL28 at 1.45.

That being said, where did you find the info on part/code numbers indicating the type of chips used? Reason I ask is that 6000 CL34 would almost be a waste of A-die as M-die should easily be able to hit those same speeds and latency, thus my skepticism on it being A-die and rather being M-die. At the end of the day, as far as AM5 is concerned makes no difference as you have little to no overclocking headroom beyond 6200-6400 at this time.

 

[Terrorvogel]

These seem the fastest modules at the moment in this size and this dual ranks are much better for the p1-fps which making VR more happy.
We will see in future...

Source:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?283666-Figuring-out-G-Skill-s-SNs

 

The first two digits stand for the memory type, DDR3 (03) or DDR4 (04). The meaning of 'L' instead of '0' is unknown. The next three digits probably indicate the JEDEC spec (133 = DDR3-1333, 160 = DDR3-1600, 213 = DDR4-2133, 240 = DDR4-2400, 266 = DDR4-2666). The meaning of the 6th digit is unknown at this point. The 7th digit indicates IC density (4 = 4Gbit, 8 = 8Gbit, S = 16Gbit) and the 8th digit might indicate organization (usually 8 = x8 or 4 = x4). The 9th digit indicates the IC manufacturer (1 = Samsung, 2 = Hynix, 3 = Micron/SpecTek, 4 = Powerchip Semiconductor Corp.) and the 11th digit indicates the die revision (B = B-die etc.). The meaning of the 10 digit is still unknown.

Thank you to Mickulty for the first info about the new system.


Since the release of DDR5 in 2021 G.Skill is using an adapted version of the one above:

Samsung:
DDR5:
0M48AXS810B = Samsung 16Gb B-die
0M48KRS810B = Samsung 16Gb B-die
0R48AXS810B = Samsung 16Gb B-die

Hynix
DDR5:
0R48KXS820M = Hynix 16Gb M-die
0T56KXS820A = Hynix 16Gb A-die

[AngleOff66]

Level1 tech 128gb of ram?

May be interesting to some?

 

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Terrorvogel said:

These seem the fastest modules at the moment in this size and this dual ranks are much better for the p1-fps which making VR more happy.
We will see in future...

Source:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?283666-Figuring-out-G-Skill-s-SNs

 

The first two digits stand for the memory type, DDR3 (03) or DDR4 (04). The meaning of 'L' instead of '0' is unknown. The next three digits probably indicate the JEDEC spec (133 = DDR3-1333, 160 = DDR3-1600, 213 = DDR4-2133, 240 = DDR4-2400, 266 = DDR4-2666). The meaning of the 6th digit is unknown at this point. The 7th digit indicates IC density (4 = 4Gbit, 8 = 8Gbit, S = 16Gbit) and the 8th digit might indicate organization (usually 8 = x8 or 4 = x4). The 9th digit indicates the IC manufacturer (1 = Samsung, 2 = Hynix, 3 = Micron/SpecTek, 4 = Powerchip Semiconductor Corp.) and the 11th digit indicates the die revision (B = B-die etc.). The meaning of the 10 digit is still unknown.

Thank you to Mickulty for the first info about the new system.


Since the release of DDR5 in 2021 G.Skill is using an adapted version of the one above:

Samsung:
DDR5:
0M48AXS810B = Samsung 16Gb B-die
0M48KRS810B = Samsung 16Gb B-die
0R48AXS810B = Samsung 16Gb B-die

Hynix
DDR5:
0R48KXS820M = Hynix 16Gb M-die
0T56KXS820A = Hynix 16Gb A-die

Interesting, looks like their example was a 6600Mhz CL34  (0T56KXS820A seen on F5-6600J3440G16GA2-TZ5RK) which by speed and latency would be more in line with A-die. So either they are wrong (possibly, but unlikely if they pulled the heat-spreader off and looked at the ICs) and this is M-die (still more than fine for AM5 purpose) or possibly these are rejected IC's that couldn't pass validation at higher speed and were binned down to a 6000Mhz speed CL34 kit. 

I don't suppose you have access to an DDR5 system where you could pop these puppies in and run Thaiphoon Burner to id the IC codes? It would be sweet to score a guarantee A-die kit at M-die prices. I'm just a little worried that this may be a bit of  mis-identification or if it is A-die, its a binning reject.

 

Or best case scenario, they didn't have M-die IC's on hand and used A-die...which would be a solid win.

Edited December 2, 2022 by EightyDuce
best case scenario

[Terrorvogel]

No, i can´t test this rams until i have the rest of that rig, sry.