MIP monitor and loss of FPS/smoothness ?

[markturner1960]

Am going to say it again though, you state:  

it is still stutters and not smooth.

and that is because a 60hz refresh rate makes any game less smooth than a monitor at 120 or 144hz.

I just have to insist, that is not the case for me. I have zero stutters and its completely and perfectly smooth......Not disputing that you can tell the difference on your system between 60 & 144, but I remain to be convinced that your issue is caused by the 60hz. Running DCS on a 60hz refresh monitor will not cause it to stutter and perform badly per se. Do the winwing monitor displays exhibit the stutter? Or is it just the main screen? 

[Guppy]

I think his monitor does not perform well at 60hz. I think it is a hardware issue that causes lag. I don't think he's actually experiencing 60hz or 60fps performance. 

[FZG_Immel]

27 minutes ago, Guppy said:

I think his monitor does not perform well at 60hz. I think it is a hardware issue that causes lag. I don't think he's actually experiencing 60hz or 60fps performance. 

I wish I could show you the difference.

maybe filming the monitor with my iPhone in both case would show you.

 

this is particularly visible when you turn your head to the side with track Ir

in one case (144 or 120hz) it’s a smooth transition in which the 90-100 fps displayed on the counter seem to be there.

 

with the winwing displays turned on and activated in dcs the same transition is not smooth. You can see « steps » while you pan to the left or right.

 

same thing when you look to the side. In 120 or 144h trees fly by in a ver smoothing way. 
 

With winwing displays activated in dcs, the trees now move step by step. Just like they would if I had way less than the 90-100 fps displayed 

You wouldn’t notice this on the winwing monitors though because it’s isn’t a 3rd world under your eyes that needs to be smooth while panning for example 

Edited October 23, 2022 by FZG_Immel

[Guppy]

Oh I totally know what you are explaining I've experienced it myself in a multi monitor setup before. I don't remember how I eventually resolved it though but I vaguely remember it being a monitor issue.

 

If you can get your hands on a monitor that maxes out at 120hz you might be able to narrow it down to  144 not playing nice on 120/60.

[FZG_Immel]

You know what. I would even change my main monitor for a 120hz or 240hz (costing me another 800$ minimum) if I knew this would fix the issue for certain, but I have no guarantee. And unless I can try the very monitor I am buying first its a gamble. an expensive one too.

I am a bit desperate at the moment, because the export to another PC software I found, should fix my issues, but I can't get it working properly. After configuring everything as indicated, the connection in between the server and the client break as soon as I try start streaming the exports..

I am a bit under a bad spell at the moment. very frustrating

Edited October 23, 2022 by FZG_Immel

[markturner1960]

I feel your pain mate...! Do you have a mate or something you can borrow a monitor from to test out? As Guppy says, its not DCS, stepping stutters like that generally indicate significantly less FPS than 60......I would say well under twenty. 

In a way though, you dont need to physically get another monitor to test - I can tell you for example that 60 & 60 on my system is perfect......hopefully someone with a 120hz main screen can chip in with their experience.  

You should try and see if you can replicate the panning issue on the WW monitors though, as if its not present, that will tell you that at least its not 60Hz causing the issue. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by markturner1960

[Tenebrae Aeternae]

I used to have all kinds of issues with combining monitors (with different refresh rates), but not with Win11. I have a vertical 1080p, 60hz freesync monitor combined with 1440p 144hz g-sync monitor and they work fine with DCS. I do have the mfd screens set on my second monitor and it's as smooth as ever. So maybe win 11 is the answer. It's quite good really. I recommend using "god mode" like in earlier windows.

https://appuals.com/activate-god-mode-windows-11/

Edited October 23, 2022 by Tenebrae Aeternae

[FZG_Immel]

Ok guys, my luck seems to be turning !

 

BIG BREAK THROUGH ! I have noticed (in desperation I tried lots of stuff) that its the MSAA (4x) of DCS that is causing the problem, or at least massively contributing to it.  

I first deactivated it, and the sensation of stutters when turning my head with track IR was completey gone (or to a level that is barely perceptible, and that even might be  just my brain playing tricks on me now). also, the trees passing by while looking at 3 or 9 dont 'step? anymore.. its... SMOOTH. I wouldnt say exactly like without the winwing display exported, but almost. Like VERY VERY VERY acceptable.

now, this game in HD, without anti aliasing is a bit rough.. So instead of activating the MSAA in DCS i went into the Nvidia control panel and maxed out my antialiasing there, and BOOM.. still smooth in DCS with winwing exports running !!!

And this seems to be the case wether my main monitor is set at 144hz or 120hz !

very very strange.

Now, what i am gonna do now, is try a few more Nvidia drivers (currently running 471.41, because they worked great on my system) and see if it adresses the MSSA of DCS, maybe.

 

But all in all, I am happy because if its not the PERFECT solution right now, we are almost there. At least, like that I can definitely put my old thrustmaster set up to rest and install the win wing MIP in my aker barnes cockpit !

 

I.. am.. relieved !

even though this thread is not closed, and I will keep updating everyone on my discoveries, id like to thank everybody who contributed in this thread. it helps not feeling alone when facing these issues.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by FZG_Immel

[speed-of-heat]

Just out of interest does the same impact occur at x2 msaa

[MadKreator]

I run a 49” ultra wide 5120x1440 @120hz and helios on a 24” 1920x1080 touchscreen @60 hz, track ir, and I don’t notice and any stuttering. Msaa at x2. Both monitor hooked up to gpu via display port.. I know its not the same setup but still differences in refresh.. silky smooth on 3080 around 90 fps on average with my settings. wondering how the mip monitors are hooked up to the pc? Are they usb-c connections? Are all three hooked into usb -c ports direct on the mobo or gpu? I seem to remember posts about usb monitors working best hooked direct to pc( not through a hub). Could you get adapters to run them straight off the 3090 DP ports? Wondering if its an “input lag” kind of scenario… i suppose output lag would be the right term Even though the effect seems to be on the main monitor.

Edited October 23, 2022 by MadKreator

[FZG_Immel]

2 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Just out of interest does the same impact occur at x2 msaa

The negative effect is half in MSAA2X compared to 4X

2 hours ago, MadKreator said:

I run a 49” ultra wide 5120x1440 @120hz and helios on a 24” 1920x1080 touchscreen @60 hz, track ir, and I don’t notice and any stuttering. Msaa at x2. Both monitor hooked up to gpu via display port.. I know its not the same setup but still differences in refresh.. silky smooth on 3080 around 90 fps on average with my settings. wondering how the mip monitors are hooked up to the pc? Are they usb-c connections? Are all three hooked into usb -c ports direct on the mobo or gpu? I seem to remember posts about usb monitors working best hooked direct to pc( not through a hub). Could you get adapters to run them straight off the 3090 DP ports? Wondering if its an “input lag” kind of scenario… i suppose output lag would be the right term Even though the effect seems to be on the main monitor.

 

 the MIP displays are USBC on the display side, and USB 3.0 on the computer side. they are connected, in my case, trough the same USB 3.0 port on my MOBO, via a powered USB HUB (Atolla)

I believe the fact that both your monitors run on a same multiple of 60hz native resolution (respectively 60 and 120) is what solves this issue. Mine is also a Samsung Odyssey ultra wide, but in 3840x1080 so it run natively at 144hz

Edited October 23, 2022 by FZG_Immel

[MadKreator]

In my case there is latency on the touchscreen( on gauges and slight delay on control, but that is inherent to Helios. On the main screen its nice and smooth, and my mfd exports through helios are smooth as well with the refresh differences. 

I have fiddled with refresh  with track IR since its a 120 hz camera and I don’t quite get 120 fps unless it in free flight up high. I capped the fps at 60 just for fun, and as someone mentioned in another post, it did seem to smooth out the tracking motion a little bit compared to it running at 120 and my fps being in the 85-90 range average. That being said, as you mentioned earlier I also notice a difference between 60 locked and the 90-100 fps range. My track ir isn’t jumpy or anything at normal fps but just not quite as smooth as when refresh is forced to a multiple. But I prefer the max fps for flight smoothness over the very slight synced smoothness in the head tracking. 

Its very possible that since your native refresh isn’t a direct multiple of the small monitors, that it could be an issue. I’m still wondering though, if there is possible latency from the usb hub and the monitors not being connected direct to the gpu, or individually connected to the mobo. Just a thought ( only based on previous posts I’ve read. Ive never had a usb monitor personally to test theories) 

[FZG_Immel]

problem is, there isnt another way to connect those displays to the GC, so it will have to go through USB anyway

[markturner1960]

Nice, glad you have it sorted.....

[MadKreator]

I was looking for usb-c Female to display port Male and no luck,, looks like you can go from male usb-c to display port Female in abundance, but not much for the other way. 

[speed-of-heat]

Would this work to the display port adapter 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/usb-c-female/s?k=usb+c+female+to+usb+female

[speed-of-heat]

I also wonder if it’s just the sheer number of total pixels  you are pushing with your 2080ti

if all 3 additional monitors are along side your main, you will have about 1m pixels additional rendered but not used 4m with MSAA x 4. You could half that by putting the monitors underneath your main monitor rather than along side…

[markturner1960]

Yeah I set mine up so they were alongside, but in a vertical row, so only added 800 to the width, giving 10,454,400 pixels (4640 x 2160) over the 8,294,400 of the normal monitor resolution. He does not give details of his windows display settings and the .lua file so we dont know....

If he puts them underneath, its 11,243,520, as opposed to at the side vertically at 10,506,240....every little helps!!

I think he said he has a 3090 now as well.....

Edited October 23, 2022 by markturner1960

[FZG_Immel]

3 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

I also wonder if it’s just the sheer number of total pixels  you are pushing with your 2080ti

if all 3 additional monitors are along side your main, you will have about 1m pixels additional rendered but not used 4m with MSAA x 4. You could half that by putting the monitors underneath your main monitor rather than along side…

My signature isnt up to date. im running a 3090...

 

I put them below at the moment, for a 3840x2104 DCS resolution. (8079360)

on the side vertically it would give me a 4608 x 3072 (14155776)

on the side horizontally could be 5384 x 1080 (5814720) --> I think this is the winner actually...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by FZG_Immel

[FZG_Immel]

I just tried the 3rd one. adding MSAA make stutters return anyway. I will have to skip DCSS MSAA for the moment. But I will try next with other nvidia drivers.

[FZG_Immel]

more clues. So far I was using Anti aliasing in DCS and Nvidia improving it.

I have updated to latest drivers from Nvidia. I can now either turn on Nvidia AA settings, or just use application control of the AA, and let DCS handle that.

in both case, no stutters. Only when I enhance the DCS AA with Nvidia settings it still stutters.

Hope my discoveries can help more ppl in the future.

Edited October 24, 2022 by FZG_Immel

[bubsy]

46 minutes ago, FZG_Immel said:

more clues. So far I was using Anti aliasing in DCS and Nvidia improving it.

I have updated to latest drivers from Nvidia. I can now either turn on Nvidia AA settings, just just use application control of the AA, and let DCS handle that.

in both case, no stutters. Only when I enhance the DCS AA with Nvidia settings it still stutters.

Hope my discoveries can help more ppl in the future.

Thanks for sharing all of the work you're doing.  I'm hoping I don't have stutters when mine come in but thanks so much for the solutions you're posting.

[markturner1960]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:02 AM, FZG_Immel said:

more clues. So far I was using Anti aliasing in DCS and Nvidia improving it.

I have updated to latest drivers from Nvidia. I can now either turn on Nvidia AA settings, or just use application control of the AA, and let DCS handle that.

in both case, no stutters. Only when I enhance the DCS AA with Nvidia settings it still stutters.

Hope my discoveries can help more ppl in the future.

 

Hi Immel, this has been a recommended "thing" for running DCS in VR for a while, interesting that it also applies to 2D in your case.

Edited November 4, 2022 by markturner1960