fixed Hellfire continues to track its target while no one is lasing anymore

[Mad_Shell]

Just did a test with an AI AH-64D block II: the AGM-114K it has fired continues to perfectly track the enemy tank, all while the Apache was destroyed only a few seconds after the missile was fired. No other unit lasing the enemy tank.

Track attached.

PS: I haven't tried if it works for Hellfires launched by players, if someone can test that it would be great!

PS 2: to add a bit more details, once the AGM 114K loses the laser spot, the missile seeker should continue to point at the last laser spot location, ad the missile should align itself with the seeker to go straight toward the last laser spot location. That's the method used to reacquire the laser spot in case the missile climbs too high in the clouds and doesn't see the laser spot anymore. Source attached (public).

bug_AI_hellfire_continues_track.trk

hellfire_article.pdf

Edited October 24, 2022 by Mad_Shell

[Flappie]

Sorry for being late, and thanks for the track.

I did another test: I started driving thetank away from its initial spot after the AH-64 exploded... the Hellfire tracked the tank anyway and hit it!

Issue reported. 

[Flappie]

I checked player AH-64: it's not affected by the bug. Hellfire gets lost once the helicopter explodes.

[Dragon1-1]

Isn't that just another instance of the old issue that AI munitions are all fire and forget? I remember hearing about Mirages dropping LGBs that magically guide despite nobody lasing them. 

[Flappie]

9 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Isn't that just another instance of the old issue that AI munitions are all fire and forget? I remember hearing about Mirages dropping LGBs that magically guide despite nobody lasing them. 

Checking AI Mirage now.

[Flappie]

@Dragon1-1 I can't have AI M-2000C to drop GBUs on a target. If you know how to do it, please provide a .miz file.

[Flappie]

You were right, it's no just the Hellfire. I tried this with an AII F-16C dropping a GBU-12. The bomb keeps tracking my moving tank even though the F-16C explodes after bomb launch.

[Dragon1-1]

You get this issue (I suspect this not a bug but a design tradeoff that probably seemed sensible back in LOMAC days) to manifest just by not equipping the Viper with the TGP. I don't know, maybe it'll now refuse to drop in this configuration (the Mirage thing was a second hand story from a while ago), but destruction of the launching aircraft is another good scenario.

I hope you can get the team to take note, but if it's by design, fixing it might take an overhaul of how AI handles air to ground weapons.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[Flappie]

19 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

just by not equipping the Viper with the TGP. I don't know, maybe it'll now refuse to drop in this configuration (the Mirage thing was a second hand story from a while ago), but destruction of the launching aircraft is another good scenario.

This bug you're describing was fixed some months ago.

[Dragon1-1]

Ah, OK then, must have missed it. Either way, I suspect it's another incarnation of it. My bet is still on this being inherent in how AI guides its air to ground weapons, with the TGP bug being fixed by adding an explicit way to handle such case. They might have forgotten to account for the aircraft being destroyed (admittedly, not a very common scenario before the Apache was a thing in DCS). 

[Nickkerkwijk]

Its also happening with the Mi28 and the Ataka missile. And also with the AI Ka50 and its Vikhr's sadly

[Flappie]

1 hour ago, Nickkerkwijk said:

Its also happening with the Mi28 and the Ataka missile. And also with the AI Ka50 and its Vikhr's sadly

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, the internal report was changed from Hellfire-specific to global. When a fix is ready, I'll test the Mi-28 too.

[Nickkerkwijk]

18 hours ago, Flappie said:

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, the internal report was changed from Hellfire-specific to global. When a fix is ready, I'll test the Mi-28 too.

I saw this when playing CA as a Roland and a Mi28 attacks my group with 5 tanks. The Mi28 pops up for its attack, launches its Ataka and turns 180 degrees shortly after i fire the Roland missile. The Ataka is tracking perfectly even after the Mi28 turns away.

 

I think this is also happening with the Su34 and the Kh29T. The Sukhoi launches its missile at a stationary tank, i take control of the tank and start to accelerate but the KH29T still hits my moving tank. Its a weird bug

[Lau]

Bump,

Happening in MT with AH64D AGM114.

Thanks,

[okopanja]

On 3/1/2023 at 12:54 PM, Nickkerkwijk said:

I saw this when playing CA as a Roland and a Mi28 attacks my group with 5 tanks. The Mi28 pops up for its attack, launches its Ataka and turns 180 degrees shortly after i fire the Roland missile. The Ataka is tracking perfectly even after the Mi28 turns away.

 

I think this is also happening with the Su34 and the Kh29T. The Sukhoi launches its missile at a stationary tank, i take control of the tank and start to accelerate but the KH29T still hits my moving tank. Its a weird bug

Kh-29T is using own camera to guide. It simply locked on tank. You should first read about capabilities before making claims.

Also vikhr will stop tracking if you get out of laser coverage.(I fly ka50 all this time and I would notice such issue)

For ataka/ai expected behavior is to stop tracking, but I do not own the ataka carrier.

[Nickkerkwijk]

9 hours ago, okopanja said:

Kh-29T is using own camera to guide. It simply locked on tank. You should first read about capabilities before making claims.

Also vikhr will stop tracking if you get out of laser coverage.(I fly ka50 all this time and I would notice such issue)

For ataka/ai expected behavior is to stop tracking, but I do not own the ataka carrier.

Im pretty sure the Kh59T is for stationairy targets only.. but i could be wrong ofcourse. The Kh29L can be used for moving targets

And the Vikhr will miss if the laser shuts off if you [as a player] fly the Ka50, but the Vikhr launched off the AI Ka50 will still track after the Ka50 turns away 180 degrees, and that is a bug

[okopanja]

17 minutes ago, Nickkerkwijk said:

Im pretty sure the Kh59T is for stationairy targets only.. but i could be wrong ofcourse. The Kh29L can be used for moving targets

I am pretty sure you mixed up missiles.

As for ai ka-50/mi28 this can be easily verified.

[Flappie]

On 5/8/2023 at 8:07 AM, Lau said:

Bump,

Happening in MT with AH64D AGM114.

Thanks,

And it affects GBUs as well. A fix is in the works. Stay tuned.

[Flappie]

This should be fixed with the next OB update.

[Flappie]

Fixed with today's OB update.