missing track files RWS stops rendering targets

[TobiasA]

I had two missions now in which I encountered the following problem:
- I had RWS active
- I had some contacts fading out of elevation (not exactly sure, might be beaming as well)
- I corrected elevation
- HSD shows them as radar tracks again
- RWS screen stays empty
- Switching the TWS instantly renders those targets
- Going back to RWS, screen blanks
- Moving the FCR cursor towards the HSD contact (on the HSD) and I can actually lock the target in RWS even though the screen is completely empty.

It was on a multiplayer server after about 30 minutes or so, so reproducing the issue or sending a track is a difficult task. So far, I failed to reproduce it in an isolated environment. I know of other people experiencing the same.
It happened one time after a spotlight search, and I think it is related to the spotlight search in lookdown conditions (both of the instances happened in lookdown conditions), but I could not reproduce it in single player environments yet.

Is such a problem known? Have other people suceeded in reproducing it? Any clue what might be the fault or how to reproduce it somewhat reliable? It really bothers because I mainly use RWS and all of a sudden, I think my scope is clean while it actually is not.

Feel free to close the thread if the issue is known.

Thanks in advance and have a nice weekend!

[skywalker22]

If you were on multiplayer server, tracks are saving automatically on this location:

...\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Tracks\Multiplayer

If file is too big, zip it and upload it some where and paste the link here. We have to see the track, else is all pointless. Because all works fine for me.

[TobiasA]

It is about 1.5 hours on a multiplayer server.

I can dig for it but... It would be huge.

[_SteelFalcon_]

48 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

I had two missions now in which I encountered the following problem:
- I had RWS active
- I had some contacts fading out of elevation (not exactly sure, might be beaming as well)
- I corrected elevation
- HSD shows them as radar tracks again
- RWS screen stays empty
- Switching the TWS instantly renders those targets
- Going back to RWS, screen blanks
- Moving the FCR cursor towards the HSD contact (on the HSD) and I can actually lock the target in RWS even though the screen is completely empty.

It was on a multiplayer server after about 30 minutes or so, so reproducing the issue or sending a track is a difficult task. So far, I failed to reproduce it in an isolated environment. I know of other people experiencing the same.
It happened one time after a spotlight search, and I think it is related to the spotlight search in lookdown conditions (both of the instances happened in lookdown conditions), but I could not reproduce it in single player environments yet.

Is such a problem known? Have other people suceeded in reproducing it? Any clue what might be the fault or how to reproduce it somewhat reliable? It really bothers because I mainly use RWS and all of a sudden, I think my scope is clean while it actually is not.

Feel free to close the thread if the issue is known.

Thanks in advance and have a nice weekend!

Are you sure you didnt accidentally switch the MIDS filter on the FCR to TGTS or NONE?

currently there is a bug that removes raw radar hits when either of those filters are active

[skywalker22]

17 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

It is about 1.5 hours on a multiplayer server.

I can dig for it but... It would be huge.

Or go through it in Replay, and use some app like OSB Studio to record what ever you want. 

And you will have a much shorter file to upload.

[skywalker22]

12 minutes ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

Are you sure you didnt accidentally switch the MIDS filter on the FCR to TGTS or NONE?

currently there is a bug that removes raw radar hits when either of those filters are active

As far as I tested in 2.8, this it not a bug any more, radar contacts do not disappear any longer.

[TobiasA]

It happened in 2.8, just yesterday I think. I will try and see if the track works.

[_SteelFalcon_]

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

As far as I tested in 2.8, this it not a bug any more, radar contacts do not disappear any longer.

Maybe test again then. Cuz this report was done using 2.8 latest ob and it can reliably be reproduced and has as such already been reported.

 

[skywalker22]

42 minutes ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

Maybe test again then. Cuz this report was done using 2.8 latest ob and it can reliably be reproduced and has as such already been reported.

 

Just tested ones again, and it seems to work as intended. Filter Options:

• ALL: All Datalink symbols are displayed - ok

• FTR+: Datalink Surveillance tracks are removed - issue: PPLI tracks should still be visible, and are not all - some are

• TGTS: Datalink Surveillance and PPLI tracks are removed - ok

• NONE: No Datalink symbols are displayed -ok

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by skywalker22

[TobiasA]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb _SteelFalcon_:

Maybe test again then. Cuz this report was done using 2.8 latest ob and it can reliably be reproduced and has as such already been reported.

 

I will test that, thanks! 

[_SteelFalcon_]

23 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

Just tested ones again, and it seems to work as intended. Filter Options:

• ALL: All Datalink symbols are displayed - ok

• FTR+: Datalink Surveillance tracks are removed - issue: PPLI should still be visible, and are not all - some are

• TGTS: Datalink Surveillance and PPLI tracks are removed - ok

• NONE: No Datalink symbols are displayed -ok

 

 

Your tests are faulty. Dont look at stuff at 100+nm. The DL symbology getting removed is correct. BUT it also removes raw radar hits/bricks (NOT DL!) which it should not, even with MIDS to „TGTS“ or „NONE“, according to a very often referenced document about a certain tape. The function is well documented there.

the OP says RWS shows no more contacts, which means raw radar data disappears. He‘s not talking about DL symbology, which disappears anyway when the mids filter is set to NONE or TGTS.

 

i suggest you take the time and watch the tracks in my linked bug report.

Edited November 13, 2022 by _SteelFalcon_

[skywalker22]

Indeed yee, I didn't even know about that issue. I only had issue with disappearing DL contacts from FCR and HSD before 2.8. And as OP and you are saying, if having filter on TGTS, it really does hide the raw radar contacts from FCR - and as OP said, they can really be locked even not seen on FCR as contacts. And its a bug.

Thanks for the info @_SteelFalcon_

[TobiasA]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb _SteelFalcon_:

Your tests are faulty. Dont look at stuff at 100+nm. The DL symbology getting removed is correct. BUT it also removes raw radar hits/bricks (NOT DL!) which it should not, even with MIDS to „TGTS“ or „NONE“, according to a very often referenced document about a certain tape. The function is well documented there.

the OP says RWS shows no more contacts, which means raw radar data disappears. He‘s not talking about DL symbology, which disappears anyway when the mids filter is set to NONE or TGTS.

 

i suggest you take the time and watch the tracks in my linked bug report.

 

It looks like that issue, however, if I toggle the option with Comm Switch In <.5s, it does not remove the radar blips in my simple test mission. I watched your track, and this is exactly what is happening (guessing from the symptoms).
What inputs did you make?
Or the issue only appears when a Link16 host is in the mission..?

I will try to toggle that input and see what happens. Thanks a lot for that hint!

[skywalker22]

It's IFF IN an IFF OUT. In controls check for Transmit switch - IFF IN for cycling filter options, and IFF OUT to remove Datalink tracks.

[_SteelFalcon_]

As mentioned, the MIDS filters technically only affect datalink info and as such, to see any effect, you would need at least an awacs in your mission to see DL symbology on your FCR.

currently, not only does DL info get removed with the 2 mentioned MIDS filters, but also raw radar bricks.

keybinds as skywalker mentioned.

iff in (short press) cycles the filter options. Iff out (short press) toggles from selected filter to none and back

[_SteelFalcon_]

@TobiasA you brought me on an idea and indeed, if MIDS is off, setting the filter to "none" or "tgts" does not remove raw hits (so technically correct)  but as soon as i turn the mids knob "on", bricks disappear... see mids_v2.trk attached

Then i ran the test again, this time i deleted the AWACS in the Mission editor and flew with MIDS knob to ON, and the tracks didnt get removed (technically correct again). (mids_v3_no_awacs.trk)

Seems like the bug only occurs if DL info is being fed into the cockpit from some DL donor aircraft. if you either manually turn DL off (MIDS knob OFF) OR no DL donor is present, the MIDS filter dont affect raw hits. but turning it on, suddenly the filter removes the raw hits too, and not just the DL info.

@BIGNEWY maybe this helps narrowing the bug down. i would add it there, but cant, since it's locked.

 

mids_v3_no_awacs.trk mids_v2.trk

Edited November 13, 2022 by _SteelFalcon_

[TobiasA]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb _SteelFalcon_:

@TobiasA you brought me on an idea and indeed, if MIDS is off, setting the filter to "none" or "tgts" does not remove raw hits (so technically correct)  but as soon as i turn the mids knob "on", bricks disappear... see mids_v2.trk attached

Then i ran the test again, this time i deleted the AWACS in the Mission editor and flew with MIDS knob to ON, and the tracks didnt get removed (technically correct again). (mids_v3_no_awacs.trk)

Seems like the bug only occurs if DL info is being fed into the cockpit from some DL donor aircraft. if you either manually turn DL off (MIDS knob OFF) OR no DL donor is present, the MIDS filter dont affect raw hits. but turning it on, suddenly the filter removes the raw hits too, and not just the DL info.

@BIGNEWY maybe this helps narrowing the bug down. i would add it there, but cant, since it's locked.

 

mids_v3_no_awacs.trk 570.94 kB · 0 Downloads mids_v2.trk 879.99 kB · 0 Downloads

 

That is exactly the issue, the above trackfiles are both the missing one for this issue as well as a supplemental to the linked threat. Thank you very much for that!