Any chance for a russian jet?

[F-2]

Years ago there was supposed to be an Su-35 (Su-27m) flight simulator made with assistance of Sukohi and test pilots who flew the real thing but it never was released. Supposedly their was supposed to be a beta.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/19991002084308/www.aha.ru/~gland/

This gaming magazine seems to have had a copy. https://m.igromania.ru/article/19131/Kladbische_russkih_igr._Otechestvennye_proekty_konca_devyanostyh_tak_i_ne_uvidevshie_svet.html
 

id be interested in at least examining it.

 

 

also of note the sim seems to have been used to make a desktop trainer Su-30 for the Indian Air Force. The demo version without the cockpit avionics is still available. I thought that could be used as a reference to make an AI Su-30sm.

 

[bies]

On 12/19/2022 at 2:33 PM, legitscoper said:

Yeah my bad, I meant soviet, of course there is no chance for a Russian one, but Soviet? Pretty old stuff

 

Su-27S, MiG-29A, MiG-31, Tu-160, Tu-22M, Mi-24P, Su-17M, Su-24M and many others are all Soviet aircrafts. They are not that old. Some are actually still a bit too "modern" for Russia to be modeled. Like i.e. non-modernised original Soviet MiG-29 9.12 from 1983. Let alone original Su-27S or MiG-31.

[Dragon1-1]

Su-27S was mentioned as maybe, but the problem with the Russian government is that it's so disorganized you might well get a different answer every time you ask. You will definitely get a different answer depending on whether there's a bottle of vodka or genuine champagne enclosed with the question. In general, they're difficult to work with, a paper pusher on a power trip is perfectly capable of ruining your day just because he can.

The nice thing about the MiG-29A is that the cat's pretty much out of the bag on that one, they're in service all over NATO, and I'm sure Ukrainians would part with some old manuals in exchange for participating in their propaganda. However, ED has some constraints other module makers don't.

Funnily enough, there are some privately owned Su-27s in the US. Variant unknown, but if a module maker was up to it, those guys might be easier to deal with than the Russians.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

6 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Su-27S was mentioned as maybe, but the problem with the Russian government is that it's so disorganized you might well get a different answer every time you ask. You will definitely get a different answer depending on whether there's a bottle of vodka or genuine champagne enclosed with the question. In general, they're difficult to work with, a paper pusher on a power trip is perfectly capable of ruining your day just because he can.

The nice thing about the MiG-29A is that the cat's pretty much out of the bag on that one, they're in service all over NATO, and I'm sure Ukrainians would part with some old manuals in exchange for participating in their propaganda. However, ED has some constraints other module makers don't.

Funnily enough, there are some privately owned Su-27s in the US. Variant unknown, but if a module maker was up to it, those guys might be easier to deal with than the Russians.

Paranoia and bureaucracy are, indeed, the issues here.

As for the privately owned Su-27s, they were Su-27UBs. However, they just basically disappeared. Both were purchased by a company called Meridian consulting and haven't flown under their registration of N131SU and N132SU in over a decade. It's suspected they're toys locked away in Groom Lake, now. Even if they were accessible, the issue is still that enough of ED's employees are still in Russia.

Edited December 21, 2022 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[F-2]

We have some very detailed info on the N019. If it’s ever uncancelled we could get a very realistic radar model.

[Steph]

A DCS Su27UB module as a flight training aircraft would be good and not necessarily with the radar and weapon system. Just for formation flying etc like the L39 

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Even if they were accessible, the issue is still that enough of ED's employees are still in Russia.

That's why I said a 3rd party would have to do it. Asking the company, or throwing a FOIA request their way, is always a good idea. Their former owners might also have some docs saved up. Maybe between the UB version manuals and unclassified data from elsewhere, a Su-27S could be made. 

I suspect them not flying might be due to age. They're old birds, likely made at time Soviet Union was heading for dissolution, and as such, might not be safe to fly anymore. Anything that was there to learn from them has long since been learned, and in fact, they had their avionics replaced with Western ones. I doubt US in particular cares about keeping them secret, so it might be all about contacting the right person who has the data. It's easier in the US than in Russia, though US bureaucracy can be pretty obstinate, too. Although they at least don't extort bribes from you.

[upyr1]

On 12/17/2022 at 5:59 AM, Bremspropeller said:

I'm in with the J-7, though I'd prefer it to be an earlier version for usability and stuff. Kind of as a hedge against never having a MiG-21F-13.

I'm with you on that. I wouldn't mind a later version, but a Vietnam era fishbed or Fishcan just as long as we get a variant used in Vietnam. 

6 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

That's why I said a 3rd party would have to do it. Asking the company, or throwing a FOIA request their way, is always a good idea. Their former owners might also have some docs saved up. Maybe between the UB version manuals and unclassified data from elsewhere, a Su-27S could be made. 

I would love it if it could be done. I am skeptical Though I do want the latest MiGs and Sus as AI assets. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by upyr1

[Aquorys]

7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The nice thing about the MiG-29A is that the cat's pretty much out of the bag on that one

Most of the others too, and long before the Russians knew about it. As early as during the cold war, the United States actively pursued programs to acquire foreign aircraft for analysis, reverse engineering and dissimilar air combat training. The USAF has had a collection of various MiG and Sukhoi models for many years.

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, but that information was strictly classified. By "out of the bag" I meant, "the information had been made public", not just that a few people in the US know it.

[F-2]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:50 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

That's why I said a 3rd party would have to do it. Asking the company, or throwing a FOIA request their way, is always a good idea. Their former owners might also have some docs saved up. Maybe between the UB version manuals and unclassified data from elsewhere, a Su-27S could be made. 

I suspect them not flying might be due to age. They're old birds, likely made at time Soviet Union was heading for dissolution, and as such, might not be safe to fly anymore. Anything that was there to learn from them has long since been learned, and in fact, they had their avionics replaced with Western ones. I doubt US in particular cares about keeping them secret, so it might be all about contacting the right person who has the data. It's easier in the US than in Russia, though US bureaucracy can be pretty obstinate, too. Although they at least don't extort bribes from you.

Try a FOIA with the USAF

ADB199135 The Su-27 4/5/1995 NATIONAL AIR INTELLIGENCE CENTER WRIGHT-PATTERSON AFB OH 160 pages

 

I have a request for a 34 page Mig-29m document and a Mig-25 manual. I also know the names of some documentation related to the Mig-23, 25, and possibly 31.

[JudgementalRooster]

Perhaps Ukrainians would be kind enough to slip a manual of Su-24 online for developers in Western countries

[Evoman]

I recently saw this new video that Enigma did about how the up coming Mig-23 is actually going to be the ideal Russian jet to fill a big gap in the Redfore side.

 

 

[F-2]

1 hour ago, JudgementalRooster said:

Perhaps Ukrainians would be kind enough to slip a manual of Su-24 online for developers in Western countries

There was a pretty good clickable mod that unfortunately vanished.