What is the Apache sound/detection range at low level? (approximately)

[sirrah]

Sorry if asked before, but does anyone know, at what range (ballpark figure) would one be able to hear a tree top level hovering Apache, during a "silent" night?

[admiki]

It depends. When my wife finishes yelling at me for something I messed up I am, for all intents and purposes, legally deaf

[sirrah]

36 minutes ago, admiki said:

It depends. When my wife finishes yelling at me for something I messed up I am, for all intents and purposes, legally deaf

Sure, I get it, my question can't be answered mathematically.. Hence I used "approximately" and "ballpark figure" in my OP.

Anyone any rough idea? ~5km? more?

[freehand]

17 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Sure, I get it, my question can't be answered mathematically.. Hence I used "approximately" and "ballpark figure" in my OP.

Anyone any rough idea? ~5km? more?

How low ? I see them come over my place now and again.

[sirrah]

16 hours ago, freehand said:

How low ? I see them come over my place now and again.

I'm mostly curious on the sound detection when in a low (tree top) level hover, though I can imagine that's difficult to answer.

 

I'm building a night time mission, where the player needs to observe a target area (village) without being detected. During testing, I noticed that the FLIR zoom range is actually quite limited. I mean, I had to get within approximately 5km's distance, in order to properly distinguish infantry units from other objects (and obviously I know exactly where to look as I created the mission, so it will be much more difficult for someone new).

When you look at Apache FLIR video's on YT, most of the times you see the "soon to be erased targets" walking around carelessly and completely unaware of their inevitable fate. 

[RodBorza]

Just now, sirrah said:

I'm mostly curious on the sound detection when in a low (tree top) level hover, though I can imagine that's difficult to answer.

 

I'm building a night time mission, where the player needs to observe a target area (village) without being detected. During testing, I noticed that the FLIR zoom range is actually quite limited. I mean, I had to get within approximately 5km's distance, in order to properly distinguish infantry units from other objects (and obviously I know exactly where to look as I created the mission, so it will be much more difficult for someone new).

When you look at Apache FLIR video's on YT, most of the times you see the "soon to be erased targets" walking around carelessly and completely unaware of their inevitable fate. 

In real life... no idea.

In game, you can do a test first to determine the sound detection range. Find a point of reference, a building, an airport, whatever and put your waypoints on defined distances from the reference, ie., 2 km, 5km, 8 km, 10 km and so on.  Get to the choppa... and move to the waypoints you set. At each one you get into a hover, go F2 for external view and zoom out to the reference point. This way you will be able to determine at which distance the chopper can be heard or not. Do it in daylight to facilitate things. Then you can do the same, with enemy units located at the reference point, set your chopper as Immortal and do the test again, this time  for sound and visual detection. Do the same for night and day and then you can determine if detection range changes during the day and at night. Usually enemy units don't have good detection at night.

 

 

 

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, RodBorza said:

In real life... no idea.

In game, you can do a test first to determine the sound detection range. Find a point of reference, a building, an airport, whatever and put your waypoints on defined distances from the reference, ie., 2 km, 5km, 8 km, 10 km and so on.  Get to the choppa... and move to the waypoints you set. At each one you get into a hover, go F2 for external view and zoom out to the reference point. This way you will be able to determine at which distance the chopper can be heard or not. Do it in daylight to facilitate things. Then you can do the same, with enemy units located at the reference point, set your chopper as Immortal and do the test again, this time  for sound and visual detection. Do the same for night and day and then you can determine if detection range changes during the day and at night. Usually enemy units don't have good detection at night.

 

 

 

Thanks for the idea mate , but I'm more interested in knowing if my mission is within reasonable range of what would be realistic in real life.

 

Making the mission work (in this case ensure that the player is not detected, unless I want it to be) is definitely not the problem. There are many different ways to achieve this. I merely wonder if it's at all remotely realistic that a hovering Apache at low altitude (behind trees or buildings), would not be detected by someone on the ground standing 4 or 5km's away. Or would we be talking 10km's or more, for someone to not notice an Apache.

 

 

Edit:

Also, aside from DCS, I'm just honestly curious about this

Edited December 8, 2022 by sirrah

[M1Combat]

They're pretty quiet.

[sirrah]

43 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

They're pretty quiet.

Oh really?

I thought I've read that they are relatively loud, compared to other helo's

[Iron Sights]

The Apache is going to be noisy in a hover and on a quiet night you could detect the noise fairly far away. 5km might not hide it’s sound. However, attack helicopters count on the presence of loud vehicles to mask their sound approaching. In defilade, the trees will help muffle the sound some. The only times I’ve been surprised by a helicopter is when in a vehicle or around running vehicles. That said, you may hear it in the distance and still not know where it is, until things start blowing up.

[sirrah]

6 minutes ago, Iron Sights said:

The Apache is going to be noisy in a hover and on a quiet night you could detect the noise fairly far away. 5km might not hide it’s sound. However, attack helicopters count on the presence of loud vehicles to mask their sound approaching. In defilade, the trees will help muffle the sound some. The only times I’ve been surprised by a helicopter is when in a vehicle or around running vehicles. That said, you may hear it in the distance and still not know where it is, until things start blowing up.

Thanks @Iron Sights

So, "hiding" your Apache at a ~5km distance (and in between cover by buildings/trees) is not completely and utterly absurd/unimaginable, up to the point that it would break immersion then 

[Iron Sights]

I would say not. Also remember the level of ambient noise may allow closer approach. If your prey is sitting somewhere, sniper quiet, they are going to pickup on your sound sooner. But you take guys in a hooch playing PlayStation, running a generator and listening to tunes, like many do in the field. Hell, you could hovering 100 yards away and they may not know. So, I guess it would be dependent on the scenario you are attempting to create. 

[Poptart]

In game I found it to be about 3km. 

[=DROOPY=]

23 hours ago, sirrah said:

When you look at Apache FLIR video's on YT, most of the times you see the "soon to be erased targets" walking around carelessly and completely unaware of their inevitable fate. 

 

Have you seen the video where a dog is walking along with a group that I believe were considered insurgents?  The reaction speed of the dog has to be some sort of world record. As if he knew full-well he was in a war zone. He had to know *exactly* what was about to go down. 

 

Watch the dog at the top right:

 

https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/flir-not-fear/661821564001

Edited December 9, 2022 by =DROOPY=

[Chelco]

Thanks for that video.

The range appears to be 1.4 km and everybody in the ground is clueless until the rounds impact. Is that correct?

Cheers,

 

[mcfleck]

As propagation of sound is massively influenced by the general wind direction and speed, it can and will be used in order to mask your presence when possible.
Additionally being in a dead hover over an hostile/unknown terrain is not necessarily the preferred option for this kind of situation. You would burn way more fuel, make more noise and make yourself an easy target. If you are cruising (flying a little pattern) at 45 kts or even better at 65 kts you might mitigate a lot of these problems.

[RodBorza]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:18 PM, sirrah said:

Thanks for the idea mate , but I'm more interested in knowing if my mission is within reasonable range of what would be realistic in real life.

 

Making the mission work (in this case ensure that the player is not detected, unless I want it to be) is definitely not the problem. There are many different ways to achieve this. I merely wonder if it's at all remotely realistic that a hovering Apache at low altitude (behind trees or buildings), would not be detected by someone on the ground standing 4 or 5km's away. Or would we be talking 10km's or more, for someone to not notice an Apache.

 

 

Edit:

Also, aside from DCS, I'm just honestly curious about this

 

No problem, mate. We are here to help.

Regarding real life, as other stated here, I believe they are quiet, depending on the situation. Also, we need to remember that the Apache was originally created to do exactly that: hover behind cover, find targets, shoot, run away, in a Cold War scenario. So, yes, they must be relatively quiet.

[freehand]

I have most aircraft fly over my dwelling my none scientific is below haha

When an ospray comes over it vibrates the pictures on the walls as does the chinooks the Apache has a lower base sound but still 2 times louder ish than the air ambulance.

I hear the apache before I see it that being said I am not looking for one also there is usually 2 of them. 

lol hope this helps. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by freehand