Old F-14A Cockpit

[carss]

So in the Iranian F-14A or the 95-GR, I believe this is how the cockpit will be right?

If so, I wonder what that is under the attitude indicator. I also wonder how we'll all adjust to flying this compared to the one with screens

[Sideburns]

   F-14A-55-GR
157991    F-14A            12th prototype (redesignated Prototype #1X) used for high-speed handling tests, modified for single-crew operation
 a/c stricken 30/09/1990

[Spurts]

wow, ancient!

[carss]

1 hour ago, Sideburns said:

   F-14A-55-GR
157991    F-14A            12th prototype (redesignated Prototype #1X) used for high-speed handling tests, modified for single-crew operation
 a/c stricken 30/09/1990

Ah I see, I wondered if this might have been cockpit of the F-14s used by Iran considering they may not have may screens and certainly don't have a TVC

[Naquaii]

9 minutes ago, carss said:

Ah I see, I wondered if this might have been cockpit of the F-14s used by Iran considering they may not have may screens and certainly don't have a TVC

No, the cockpit for the early USN F-14A and the IRIAF F-14A will look mostly like what we have in DCS now. The biggest change would be the deletion of the AN/ALR-67 RWR.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Naquaii

[carss]

19 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

No, the cockpit for the early USN F-14A and the IRIAF F-14A will look mostly like what we have in DCS now. The biggest change would be the deletion of the AN/ALR-67 RWR.

 

Ah awesome, and I'm also guessing the deletion of the Chin camera since they didn't have those either? I also wonder since they had older engines would they be more susceptible to engine flameouts or compressor stalls?

[LanceCriminal86]

10 minutes ago, carss said:

Ah awesome, and I'm also guessing the deletion of the Chin camera since they didn't have those either? I also wonder since they had older engines would they be more susceptible to engine flameouts or compressor stalls?

No, by the -90 and -95 those were ironed out as well as they were going to be. The screens will all still be there, you just won't have anything show up if you try to select the TCS, if the switchology will even be there. At the minimum it should be the "early" 1980s -135 but with some systems disabled, not sure if they will make a 3rd or really 4th cockpit iteration just for the Iranian jet, maybe the panels will be blanked over via some arguments. But both screens should still be there.

[Naquaii]

3 hours ago, carss said:

Ah awesome, and I'm also guessing the deletion of the Chin camera since they didn't have those either? I also wonder since they had older engines would they be more susceptible to engine flameouts or compressor stalls?

Yeah, no TCS. Was talking cockpit here.

[Egri_komrade]

1 hour ago, Naquaii said:

Yeah, no TCS. Was talking cockpit here.

And how are you planning to make it's external model for it? A few months ago I asked if the fuel tank pylons will be modeled accordingly, meaning they won't be there, but you said you won't make such correction because it's not important and takes too long for such a small thing. So the TCS pod will also just chill there with no function? Or you have a different view on this than a few months ago perhaps?

Edited December 16, 2022 by Egri_komrade

[Naquaii]

8 hours ago, Egri_komrade said:

And how are you planning to make it's external model for it? A few months ago I asked if the fuel tank pylons will be modeled accordingly, meaning they won't be there, but you said you won't make such correction because it's not important and takes too long for such a small thing. So the TCS pod will also just chill there with no function? Or you have a different view on this than a few months ago perhaps?

 

That’s really not my decision, I wasn’t aware that there had been a definite decision on the fuel tank pylons but you’d have to ask Cobra or Ironmike for that.

As for the TCS the intention afaik is to at least have a bullet fairing cover for it.

[IronMike]

9 hours ago, Naquaii said:

That’s really not my decision, I wasn’t aware that there had been a definite decision on the fuel tank pylons but you’d have to ask Cobra or Ironmike for that.

As for the TCS the intention afaik is to at least have a bullet fairing cover for it.

Correct, aerodyn cover for the TCS, and eventually - maybe - have the entire TCS pod removable.

 

The fuel pylons will not become removable, as it would include reworking large parts of the fuselage entirely (which is out of scope time and ressource wise). Whether or not that may change in the more distant future, ofc remains to be seen, but it should neither be expected, nor do we want to promise anything. Until then, the best answer thus is simply no, unfortunately. Thank you all for your kind understanding.

[SkateZilla]

Exported F-14A-90GR (Iran Export Block), had the ALQ-100 Chin Antenna Only, no Mount for any TCS or IR Systems.

[DSplayer]

Extremely low res image of an IRIAF F-14A's cockpit:

Spoiler

 

Our front and back cockpits is basically going to look like this for the Block 135 Early and Block 95:

Spoiler

 

Like what those above me have said, the cockpits aren't going to change much and only the placement of certain panels and gauges along with the deletion of the ALR-67's dedicated RWR display.

[Naquaii]

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Exported F-14A-90GR (Iran Export Block), had the ALQ-100 Chin Antenna Only, no Mount for any TCS or IR Systems.

[DSplayer]

1 hour ago, Naquaii said:

3-863/3-6001/160299 was the first F-14A delivered to Iran and prior to delivery it seems that it was fitted with a chinpod that either held the IRST. It does seem that the Iranian Tomcats once delivered didn't have a chinpod that could mount the IRST.

 

At least on pg. 12 of Tom Cooper's Iranian F-14 Tomcat book it states that "unlike Navy F-14s, however, Iranian jets were never equipped with the AN/ALR-23 IRST (infra-red scanner/tracker) system mounted under the aircraft's radome, even if the first Tomcat built for Iran (BuNo 160299) was frequently shown carrying one. Maj Ali recalls: 'The Pentagon seriously tried to sell the ALR-23 to Iran, but the IIAF knew that the system had a very limited range, provided data of limited quality and frequently misidentified sources of IR emissions.' Instead, the IIAF, having seen the excellent results achieved with the ASX-1 TISEO electro-optical sensor fitted to its late-build F-4Es, opted to wait for the more capable Northrop AN/AXX-1 Television Camera Set (TCS) to enter service. However, by the time this system was declared operational in the early 1980s the revolution had seen the Shah deposed and the US turn its back on its former ally."

Spoiler

 

If someone here had the F-14A (IR) Program Management Plan (as shown in this forum post on a modelling forum), it would be easier for us to tell definitively (much like if Iran had fuel tanks and associated pylons or not for their Tomcats).

Edited December 17, 2022 by DSplayer

[Naquaii]

1 minute ago, DSplayer said:

3-863/3-6001/160299 was the first F-14A delivered to Iran and prior to delivery it seems that it was fitted with a chinpod that either held the IRST. It does seem that the Iranian Tomcats once delivered didn't have a chinpod that could mount the IRST.

 

At least on pg. 12 of Tom Cooper's Iranian F-14 Tomcat book it states that "unlike Navy F-14s, however, Iranian jets were never equipped with the AN/ALR-23 IRST (infra-red scanner/tracker) system mounted under the aircraft's radome, even if the first Tomcat built for Iran (BuNo 160299) was frequently shown carrying one. Maj Ali recalls: 'The Pentagon seriously tried to sell the ALR-23 to Iran, but the IIAF knew that the system had a very limited range, provided data of limited quality and frequently misidentified sources of IR emissions.' Instead, the IIAF, having seen the excellent results achieved with the ASX-1 TISEO electro-optical sensor fitted to its late-build F-4Es, opted to wait for the more capable Northrop AN/AXX-1 Television Camera Set (TCS) to enter service. However, by the time this system was declared operational in the early 1980s the revolution had seen the Shah deposed and the US turn its back on its former ally."

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

If someone here had the F-14A (IR) Program Management Plan (as shown in this forum post on a modelling forum), it would be easier for us to tell definitively (much like if Iran had fuel tanks and associated pylons or not for their Tomcats).

The point is that there were examples with it and that we want to do it without the chinpod eventually if we get around to it.

[SkateZilla]

^A Single F-14A95GR had the Chinpod with the expansion port, that was only during domestic testing, it was removed/replaced before being delivered.

out of the 79 Bunos delivered, there's images scattered on the interwebz of at least 34 of them, and they all have the ALQ100 Sensor sans Expansion.

Leaving it up there, you'd basically be representing the single BuNos in it's Testing Phase Form,
Removing it for the ALQ-100 Sensor, would be the accurate way to represent the Persian Cats. 


Image of 160299 after delivery:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air-Force/Grumman-F-14A-Tomcat/2627988/L

Edited December 17, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Naquaii]

21 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

^A Single F-14A95GR had the Chinpod with the expansion port, pretty sure the rest of them didn't,

out of the 79 Bunos, there's images scattered on the interwebz of at least 34 of them, and they all have the ALQ100 Sensor sans Expansion.

So if you got to chose, would you rather not have the IRIAF F-14A at all or not until there's a model deleting the chinpod entirely?

That's the point here really. The information you present is in no way new, there where IRIAF F-14A having the mount even if just for a short time.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Naquaii

[SkateZilla]

15 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

So if you got to chose, would you rather not have the IRIAF F-14A at all or not until there's a model deleting the chinpod entirely?

That's the point here really. The information you present is in no way new.

I'd wait for the Model w/ the Chinpod Replaced with AQL100,
See revised reply above, IR Pod was only installed during domestic testing and was removed before delivery.

At the sake of sounding snarky, 
It doesn't make sense to not do one variant ( B(u)/D ), because you cant do it in the accuracy/level of standards you want,
But then turnaround and do another version (Exported -95GR) and choose to not do it accurately / level of standard, just to have it.

Edited December 17, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Naquaii]

1 minute ago, SkateZilla said:

I'd wait for the Model w/ the Chinpod Replaced with AQL100,

At the sake of sounding snarky, 
It doesn't make sense to not do one variant ( B(u)/D ), because you cant do it in the accuracy/level of standards you want,
But then turnaround and do another version (Exported -95GR) and choose to not do it accurately / level of standard, just to have it.

There isn't a transitory model of the B(U) or D we can make with the information we have, I don't really see how that comparison is relevant.

The IRIAF F-14A was always an extra with a lower ambition level, even if we'd like to do it decently. Adding the IRIAF F-14A at the same time as the early USN variant makes sense. Especially as there clearly were examples with the chinpod mount which makes it a good stand-in until/if there is a variant with the correct model deleting the mount entirely.

I don't think I'm sticking my neck out very far by saying there's a lot of people disagreeing with with you in regards to not wanting the IRIAF F-14A unless it has no TCS/IR mount.

[SkateZilla]

1 minute ago, Naquaii said:

There isn't a transitory model of the B(U) or D we can make with the information we have, I don't really see how that comparison is relevant.

The IRIAF F-14A was always an extra with a lower ambition level, even if we'd like to do it decently. Adding the IRIAF F-14A at the same time as the early USN variant makes sense. Especially as there clearly were examples with the chinpod mount which makes it a good stand-in until/if there is a variant with the correct model deleting the mount entirely.

I don't think I'm sticking my neck out very far by saying there's a lot of people disagreeing with with you in regards to not wanting the IRIAF F-14A unless it has no TCS/IR mount.

It's just the perfectionist in me, that's all.

[Naquaii]

4 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

It's just the perfectionist in me, that's all.

I'm not disagreeing with you in that I also want the more correct model without the mount entirely. Afaik that's still the intention somewhere down the line.