Pico 4: how to set it up for DCS?

[Qcumber]

My initial impressions are that it does a better job than the one in OXRTK which is not a surprise. What was surprising is that I could get 72 fps and good game latencies at Godlike with no supersampling. Not constantly, but over regular terrain and villages and at altitude. Looks great. 

[MIghtymoo]

I got a Pico 4 headset last friday.

Have set it up with Pico assistant via WIFI and SteamVR (Ultra mode).
I have a WIFI6e router with my PC connected on a 1 Gbps port on the router.

Looks pretty good. I am new to VR and I would say the experience is very immersive and awesome.
___________________

If I go for VirtualDesktop via WIFI, can I:

1. Expect better quality image?

2. Get better CPU frame time?

3. Improve performance if I remove SteamVR from starting up when using (bat-file trick).

Thanks for all tips! 

Edited August 7, 2023 by MIghtymoo

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

If I go for VirtualDesktop via WIFI, can I:

I would say;

1. Image quality is better with VD and you have more control. 

2. Not sure about improved CPU frame time. 

3. This is an interesting point. Some people get better results using oculus runtime. I find that steam vr works fine. 

With VD consider using an Ethernet to USB adaptor to connect the headset to your router. You will get more consistent and higher bitrates unless your router is very well isolated from other Wi-Fi signals. 

Also try using openxr toolkit as this will allow you to apply FSR scaling and colour/contrast. As per the post above you could also try using the new Quad Views foveated rendering. It can give you a good performance boost. 

 

[SebastianR]

Streaming assistant HD, sharpening, 90hz, usb link and riva tuner at 45fps. No VD and wifi, no oxrtk,  no controls, via usb the battery keeps the charge a lot more.

Edited August 7, 2023 by SebastianR

[MIghtymoo]

4 minutes ago, SebastianR said:

Streaming assistant HD, sharpening, 90hz, usb link and riva tuner at 45fps. No VD and wifi, no oxrtk,  no controls, via usb the battery keeps the charge a lot more.

 

Will that give better image quality compared to running 72fps and Ultra?

CPU is the limiting factor on my setup (see signature). Struggle to reach 90fps stable.

13 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

As per the post above you could also try using the new Quad Views foveated rendering. It can give you a good performance boost. 

I thought you need eyetracker support in the headset to use Quad views foveated? Pico does not have this? Have I misunderstood here?

[SebastianR]

18 minutes ago, MIghtymoo said:

Will that give better image quality compared to running 72fps and Ultra?

When I can't keep 72, I limit to 45 with rtss (1/2 x 90hz). it's pretty fluid (although not like full 72). The image quality is the same, with streaming assistant you hardly notice the compression at 150

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

I thought you need eyetracker support in the headset to use Quad views foveated? Pico does not have this? Have I misunderstood here?

So I thought too until yesterday. Quad Views does support FFR. It works great with the Pico 4. See this post:

 

2 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

Will that give better image quality compared to running 72fps and Ultra?

Aiming for 90hz puts a greater load on your GPU as it is trying to render frames every more often. This appears to push the game latency (as monitored on VD) on my system from 11-12 ms (72hz) to 15-17 ms (90hz) even when SSW is enabled. I understand this relates to the frame times (11.1 ms for 90fps; 13.9 for 72fps). I find that 72 hz runs better. Image quality is not changed but lower frame rates will give more ghosting and other movement artefacts. 

[Hardt0kidnap]

On 8/6/2023 at 4:50 PM, mrsylvestre said:

AMD GPU in my signature, no FFR with OXRTK in DCS's DX11. That is why I use QuadViews. That said, I do use FFR from OXRTK in MSFS2020 (DX12 mode), but I must say DCS QuadViews look better, because the high resolution central zone blends more nicely with the low resolution peripheral zone. I can't do an apple to apple comparison, though, because MSFS2020 does not support quadviews. Perhaps it may be worth to someone with an NVidia GPU to compare both options in DCS. I suspect that performance might be improved, because OXRTK's implementation of FFR is generic while QuadViews is being developed specifically for apps like DCS which are "quadviews-aware".

If anyone is interested, here is my "settings.cfg" file for the Pico 4 (to be put in ..\AppData\Local\Quad-Views-Foveated)

# These settings are for all headsets and applications
smoothen_focus_view_edges=0.2
sharpen_focus_view=0.0

[SteamVR]
# These settings are specific to SteamVR devices such as Pico 4
peripheral_multiplier=0.4
focus_multiplier=1.1
horizontal_fixed_section=0.5
vertical_fixed_section=0.45
turbo_mode=0

[app:DCS World]
# The settings are specific to the app "DCS World"
# (no particular settings here, some are shifting focus upwards with vertical_focus_offset=0.1)

The setting sharpen_focus_view = 0.0 might seem odd (default is 0.7) but my thinking is there is anyway a sharpening pass done afterwards by VD so I might as well avoid sharpening on top of sharpening

Sound advice about using 72 Hz mode in VD when trying to maintain 72 fps, thanks. I'm nearly there with fps now in the high 60's - low 70's after dropping view distance in DCS from high to medium.

 

 

This seems to have introduced a tracking issue with my Pico 4 on my 4080. After installing this, looking up or down will completely mess up my view. Excuse the quality, original recording was over 50mb.

[mrsylvestre]

9 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

If I go for VirtualDesktop via WIFI, can I:

1. Expect better quality image?

2. Get better CPU frame time?

3. Improve performance if I remove SteamVR from starting up when using (bat-file trick).

Thanks for all tips! 

 

Considering that your signature mentions an RTX 4090, I'd go for VD.

1. Yes !

2. Not sure about that.

3. Not worth it with a 4090. I observe that most if not all those who report better performance in Oculus rather than SteamVR/OpenXR seem to have older GPU's (1080s, 2070s).One caveat: wifi is great for the freedom of movement (no pesky cable, although it is not that much of an issue for flight sims) but limits the gameplay duration (battery). Of course, you can still keep the headset connected to an USB port, charge or powerpack while streaming through wifi (VD does not officially support streaming through USB, hacks that allow this are often not stable).

Edited August 7, 2023 by mrsylvestre

[mrsylvestre]

 

22 hours ago, Qcumber said:

My initial impressions are that it does a better job than the one in OXRTK which is not a surprise. What was surprising is that I could get 72 fps and good game latencies at Godlike with no supersampling. Not constantly, but over regular terrain and villages and at altitude. Looks great. 

 

Yes, I was also surprised yesterday by the performance in Godlike with just quadviews and 72 Hz. In fact, adding other tricks such as FSR@85% and forced lower resolution at around 3000x3000 with OXRTK did not really yield further gains.

[Qcumber]

The performance improvement is amazing. Much better than anything from OXRTK. I can get 72 fps, and can now also run 90hz with a reasonable game latency. 

[Oellness]

Hi,

 

what is quad views and how can i use it?

Is this for DCS with Ocolus or SteamVR ?

I have lost track of what options there are for DCS all.
DCS with Ocolus, DCS with SteamVR with --forceOpenXR, DCS MT with Registry Hack...

 

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, Oellness said:

what is quad views and how can i use it?

See this post from above for the config settings and more details.

You can find Quad Views here:

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki

It is a new project by mbuchia which is aimed at headsets with eye tracking, but also works in a fixed foveated rendering mode. It is superior to the FFR in OXRTK and allows control of upscaling in the centre and periphery. I am still playing with this but it does make a big difference in quality/performance. It works with openxr so should work straight out of the box with DCS MT Pico 4 running through steam vr. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Qcumber

[MIghtymoo]

3 hours ago, Qcumber said:

See this post from above for the config settings and more details.

You can find Quad Views here:

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki

It is a new project by mbuchia which is aimed at headsets with eye tracking, but also works in a fixed foveated rendering mode. It is superior to the FFR in OXRTK and allows control of upscaling in the centre and periphery. I am still playing with this but it does make a big difference in quality/performance. It works with openxr so should work straight out of the box with DCS MT Pico 4 running through steam vr. 

 

Sounds interesting!

How much performance improvement are you experiencing approx?

Do do you recommend to "play" with Quad views for Pico 4? 

[Grodin]

On 12/23/2022 at 8:41 PM, 5ephir0th said:

Changed from a 3080Ti to 4090, night and day, its simply that not all of us have the same measuring bar for quality or smoothness...

Its night and day also for 3080ti vs 3090 because 3080ti runs out of vram in dcs vr causing it to run poorly.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Grodin

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, MIghtymoo said:

How much performance improvement are you experiencing approx?

I have not tried quantifying it but I can run Godlike at 72 fps (90 in some situations) without needing any FSR sampling. I'll have try disabling it and doing an fps comparison. 

 

1 hour ago, MIghtymoo said:

Do do you recommend to "play" with Quad views for Pico 4?

Yes, I would recommend playing with it. It's not as easy to use as OXRTK as you have to edit a user config file, but the Website has good instructions and it's quite straightforward. 

[MIghtymoo]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

I have not tried quantifying it but I can run Godlike at 72 fps (90 in some situations) without needing any FSR sampling. I'll have try disabling it and doing an fps comparison. 

Very nice.

Another question from a noob:

I have found settings in DCS now resulting in very smooth and stable 72fps with Pico Assistant in Ultra.

Do you expect that I can achieve the same smooth 72fps with VD and Godlike? Or will that impact the CPU or GPU negatively?

The reason I am asking, is if I should invest in VD or just be happy with the native app.

Edited August 8, 2023 by MIghtymoo

[Qcumber]

5 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

I have found settings in DCS now resulting in very smooth and stable 72fps with Pico Assistant in Ultra.

I found VD to be quite a bit better but I've not tried Pico SA for a few weeks so not sure if it's improved at all. I find VD more reliable too. I also have problems connecting with SA. Try openxr toolkit and Quad Views first (as these are free) and see how it looks. What PC specs do you have? 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Qcumber

[MIghtymoo]

You can see my PC specs in the signature.

In my build it seems like the CPU is the «weak» link. Have pushed the DCS settings as far as I can and still get smooth 72fps. GPU has never been anywhere close to maxed out when I have smooth looking views.

Q1: I am not sure if Quad Views will make much of a difference if I am CPU-bound and GPU is running around 80%? What do you think?

Q2: If the GPU is still having overhead, I guess it is good to try out Godlike in VD? Is the encoding only taxing the GPU or will the CPU also get taxed with better quality encoding?

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, MIghtymoo said:

You can see my PC specs in the signature.

Sorry. I missed that.

Q1: that's a good point. With a 4090 and CPU limited you might not see any benefits from QV. 

Q2: you would definitely see a difference at Godlike with VD. You could use OXRTK to override the resolution and set it to 3120x3120 or even higher and see how it looks in SA. There are other advantages to VD though, such as h264+ and HEVC 10 bit, better sharpening control etc. 

[Qcumber]

I have done some playing with QVFR and a quick summary of the results. 

VD godlike and 72 Hz flying over Normandy 2 map (free flight mission)

First image without QVFR: 58 fps (50-60 fps across the scene)

Second image with QVFR: steady 72 fps 

QVFR settings

# These settings are for all headsets and applications
smoothen_focus_view_edges=0.4
sharpen_focus_view=0.9

[SteamVR]
# These settings are specific to SteamVR devices such as Pico 4
peripheral_multiplier=0.45
focus_multiplier=1.0
horizontal_fixed_section=0.4
vertical_fixed_section=0.5
turbo_mode=0

[app:DCS World]
# The settings are specific to the app "DCS World"
# (no particular settings here, some are shifting focus upwards with vertical_focus_offset=0.1)
vertical_focus_offset=-0.1

This is not scientific in any way but it's about a 25% increase in fps. 

I would be interested to see how other people find this. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Qcumber

[MIghtymoo]

Short update:

As a new VR user I have been trying to orient myself with all the options/settings/tweakings that are posted here and many other places.

I started with the Streaming Assistant from PICO and 72Hz refresh rate and after the initial wow factor, I noticed that the image was blurry in the distance. I also struggled to increase the graphics settings to what I would like (e.g shadows, high draw distance).

Yesterday I bought Virtual Desktop. Installation was super easy. Same with getting DCS to run. Loke the GUI in VD!

Running DCS is super simple:

1. Start VD in the headset

2. Start VD on the PC

3. Start DCS from the PC, as you would on a 2D-screen setup 

That's all.

______

I am running Godlike mode and 45/90 frame rate with Synchronous Spacewarp always on. By running 45fps I was making it a lot easier for the CPU, so I could push up the graphics settings and make the GPU be fully utilized.

I can now enable things like environmental shadows (flat), 2x MSAA, cockpit shadows, high draw distance, max out the Forest visibility and Details factors++++

Now the clarity and detail level is MUCH better that what I could achieve with the Streaming Assistant from PICO on Ultra.

I can read all the little text on the dials in the Viggen and read clearly the MFDs in the Apache and the F-16.
Also the environment is much clearer and it is easy to find the airports now.

In an ideal world I would run these settings pushing 72/90 real frames, but it is impossible with the current CPUs/GPUs.

I am really happy with the results!

PS: I am running 1 Gbit from PC to router and image is super nice and detailed. No need to buy router with 2.5 Gbit port to get great image quality.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by MIghtymoo

[Qcumber]

45 minutes ago, MIghtymoo said:

In an ideal world I would run these settings pushing 72/90 real frames, but it is impossible with the current CPUs/GPUs

Try using QVFR. According to the discord channel many users are seeing a big improvement even with a 4090. I think you will get 72 fps without reprojection. Also 72hz is easier on your CPU/GPU than 90hz so you should see lower game latency. 

https://discord.gg/yjxZd2Rs

 

[Danzig]

5 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

I am running Godlike mode and 45/90 frame rate with Synchronous Spacewarp always on. By running 45fps I was making it a lot easier for the CPU, so I could push up the graphics settings and make the GPU be fully utilized.

 

 

 

doesnt the spacewarp setting give you weird visual artifacts, when you rotate your plane on its own axis?  ( like when you have a 2d screen but no vsync on )

 

[Lange_666]

That's the reason why i returned the Pico. Way to many disturbing artifacts with space warp on and with a 3080Ti i needed space warp to get a fixed FPS rate.